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Thread: YC/RD

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Cheers Marc.

    card it is. As long as its foul play and not e.g. offside presumably.

    didds
    didds .. it's 8.3 it's always a card

  2. #42

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    I never have thought that it is compulsory to YC for a PT. Recently at one of our training sessions one ot our professional referees said that they try to avoid a ‘double whammy’ as much as possible. The real question is does it meet YC criteria.
    At a recent match one scrum was being totally decimated. A PT resulted. Who do you YC? T/H, L/H, Hooker, No8 for releasing bind, second row for going to ground? Nobody was really at fault; the opposition were too big and strong. There was nothing that the opposition scrum could do to resist the pressure. If they (and one player in particular) were deliberately dropping the scrum (or similar) to prevent the drive it would be a different matter.

    In the above scrum scenario the referee adopted the ‘I must YC’ approach. This resulted in uncontested scrums and the dominant scrum (and coach in particular) was livid!
    At a scrum, if no one intentionally offended, and did not violate the provisions in 9.19.a-d, is there foul play? No foul play, then no PT?

  3. #43

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    At a scrum, if no one intentionally offended, and did not violate the provisions in 9.19.a-d, is there foul play? No foul play, then no PT?
    The dominant scrum repeatedly cause the inferior scrum to release their binding. Continually reset or penalise the dominant scrum?

  4. #44

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    The dominant scrum repeatedly cause the inferior scrum to release their binding. Continually reset or penalise the dominant scrum?
    I think you would PK the team that couldn't cope with the pressure and unbinds. I don't think this is FP (unless done intentionally) and a PT which requires FP. Once it becomes repeated, then it is FP and possibly PT territoty, though since it is repeated then you can and should YC the repeat offender, or the last offender in a team repeated infringement scenario.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: YC/RD

    I suppose it then becomes a safety issue. It's been said before that if there's a dominant scrum, the refs might tell them to reign it in a bit, be controlled. If the weaker pack is being forced apart, this might be to do with the speed of the dominant pack, speed = not under control.

    So it's been said in the past that refs will tell them to slow down the drive, or they would order uncontested at that point. I suppose for the purposes of the PT from a collapsed scrum - unless intentional, not an offence and a scrum reset.

    It's not really something I've came across so far. I've had 6/7 scrums go down in 6 games. I just reset them, needed to speak to FR in 2 games (one was U-16).

  6. #46

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    I suppose it then becomes a safety issue. It's been said before that if there's a dominant scrum, the refs might tell them to reign it in a bit, be controlled. If the weaker pack is being forced apart, this might be to do with the speed of the dominant pack, speed = not under control.

    So it's been said in the past that refs will tell them to slow down the drive, or they would order uncontested at that point. I suppose for the purposes of the PT from a collapsed scrum - unless intentional, not an offence and a scrum reset.

    It's not really something I've came across so far. I've had 6/7 scrums go down in 6 games. I just reset them, needed to speak to FR in 2 games (one was U-16).
    I can understand that approach at the lower levels but at the levels I generally observe and above you can’t really do that.

  7. #47

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    The dominant scrum repeatedly cause the inferior scrum to release their binding. Continually reset or penalise the dominant scrum?
    Repeated offence is foul play (as you pointed out above) and then if it's a repeated offence then you very likely have ID your offender

  8. #48

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Repeated offence is foul play (as you pointed out above) and then if it's a repeated offence then you very likely have ID your offender
    The ‘offender’ was the dominant scrum which drove forward at such a rate that it was not possible to hold on to a bind or keep shape.
    Or possibly a very weak back five that couldn’t offer the front row any support.
    In such circumstances I cannot see how YCing somebody will cure the problem especially if they are replaced by someone that might not be so good and is then YC’d at the next scrum and causes uncontested scrums.

    As an aside, shouldn’t a player be allowed to release his bind to keep himself safe?

  9. #49

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    The ‘offender’ was the dominant scrum which drove forward at such a rate that it was not possible to hold on to a bind or keep shape.
    Or possibly a very weak back five that couldn’t offer the front row any support.
    In such circumstances I cannot see how YCing somebody will cure the problem especially if they are replaced by someone that might not be so good and is then YC’d at the next scrum and causes uncontested scrums.

    As an aside, shouldn’t a player be allowed to release his bind to keep himself safe?
    I am confused , I thought you had identified the team releasing the bind as the offender (indeed a repeat offender )

  10. #50

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    Default Re: YC/RD

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I am confused , I thought you had identified the team releasing the bind as the offender (indeed a repeat offender )
    Sorry for confusion.
    The point I’m trying to make is that the release of bind was the result of the force of the drive and not something done intentionally to get out of trouble. For this reason I don’t see why we should ‘double whammy’ a team. Also several players had their bind broken so why pick on one.

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