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Thread: Accidental offside ?

      
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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Accidental offside ?

    Red vs Green, U15 Girls and the standard that often brings with it, red kick from their 22, hits green player on the knee (knee so not a kick, and literally hits and bounces off her, no attempt to play the ball or do anything, completely unaware) and goes forward, green team mate in front of her picks it and runs into contact, play continues. Decision? and would the same scenario in a L7 league game lead to a different outcome?

    I called play on for what it’s worth, not kicked, not played, and not material.

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    PK in both cases- but with the U15 girls you are going to stop watch and (cheerfully) explain the decision, as the offender very likely didn't completely realise what she was doing.

    (NB it's not accidental offside, that would be if the ball cannoned into the second green player without her being able to avoid it. Picking up the ball is just your plain regular offside)

    If you play on then you have given thirty 15 year olds the impression that it is OK. How are they ever going to learn then?

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    What’s the justification for that sanction though as offside is defined as ;

    A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it


    And playing the ball is a deliberate act;

    The ball is played when it’s intentionally touched by a player


    That didn’t happen?
    Last edited by Flish; 08-03-20 at 19:03.

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    Team mate picks it up. That's intentional.
    Edit: sorry, misread.
    Last edited by Rich_NL; 08-03-20 at 20:03.

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    OK I didn't realise it was the definition of "played" was where you going with that !

    So the U15 girls is a red herring. If you don't think she was offside at all, because the ball wasn't "played" by the team mate, then of course it's play on at every level, as there has been no offence

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    Yes and no, in black and white terms yes a red herring (assuming i hadn’t missed something obvious) but I wasn’t sure if this one of those ones where expected end result trumps the literal current wording (eg previous definitions would have had a different result), or if at higher levels we would call that as played regardless. There was an expectation of offside on the touchline but seemed happy enough with my reasoning after.

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Yes and no, in black and white terms yes a red herring (assuming i hadn’t missed something obvious) but I wasn’t sure if this one of those ones where expected end result trumps the literal current wording (eg previous definitions would have had a different result), or if at higher levels we would call that as played regardless. There was an expectation of offside on the touchline but seemed happy enough with my reasoning after.
    for me #2 green was in front of a team mate who last played the ball, so offside, so PK. That's the 'safe' decision that everyone is expecting.

    (Yes I completely get the problem with the defintion of played)

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    for me #2 green was in front of a team mate who last played the ball, so offside, so PK. That's the 'safe' decision that everyone is expecting.

    (Yes I completely get the problem with the definition of played)
    What CR said. Standing in a position where the ball hitting knee did materially impact the ball's direction so dangerous to assume it was not "played" IMHO. PK is my first instinct.

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    OFFSIDE AND ONSIDE IN OPEN PLAY
    10.1 A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it. An offside player must not interfere with play.

    Played: The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player.

    This is effectively just a variation on the ball ricocheting off a shoulder and an "offside" player picks it up. I've been racking my brains over this one for weeks.

    My first reaction is, the girl that collected the ball is offside, but the elephant ion the room is the word "intentional". The teammate didn't "intentionally" play the ball so by definition can the player with the ball be offside?

    The previous lawbook didn't mention "intentional" at all (from memory I think it just said "The ball is played when it is touched by a player") but the new "simplified" lawbook does; so I can only assume that World Rugby put it in for a reason.

    Strictly speaking I don't think she is offside (as defined) but the problem you will have is that almost everybody else will reckon she is offside - even including most of the players.

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    Default Re: Accidental offside ?

    In the re write they changed the definition of played , without thinking through all the implications

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