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Thread: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

      
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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Question No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    In reference to the Manu Red Card (which I think is correct fwiw) there's talk on podcasts and senior refs have confirmed that because it was a shoulder charge (arm tucked therefore not a tackle attempt) there can be no mitigation, therefore once he made contact with the head he's off, other mitigating factors are ignored) - which was my understanding. However, the Flowchart at World Rugby (Download this guideline as a PDF) does have an asterisk to mitigating factors at that point in the flow chart - am I missing a nuance?

    As it stands I think that the only mitigating factor that would apply is drop in height, and not convinced that applies, however there's a big difference between mitigating factors don't apply and i'm not allowed to consider mitigation, so which is it?

    TIA

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    THere does seem to be confusion. Dare I say your headline:


    No Mitigation? (High Tackle)


    does not help. The point being this is not a "high tackle" situation. Less confusing would be

    No Mitigation? (Shoulder Charge).

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Fair point, all though they do call it the high tackle framework which is what I was referring to

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Caveat : Its a RC all day long under current guidelines, no argument.

    however ... a suggestion that there is no no mitigation cos its a no arms warp collision?

    I'd suggest MT was setting up to tackle him at position X - but due to the excellent work of Slade on North, North didnt end up where MT thought he'd be and so ended up at position Y, not quite as far advanced as X. For the record Ive no issue with th RC under the guidelines... but I cant agree on a wider discussion that there may ne no extenuating/mitigating circumstances simply because the arms dont end up where they need to be etc.

    Meanwhile then - are we saying that if MT had got arms round North and still smashed him in the head with his shoulder it would be a yellow? Because if that is true under the guidelnes that is ridiculous - it's stiull forceful contact with the head!!

    what a pile of foetid dingoes' kidneys WR have created.

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 09-03-20 at 10:03.

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    So this is the 6N guidelines
    They state clearly that no mitigation is applied where the tackle illegal from the outset (eg a shoulder charge)

    This is different from the published framework which (I now agree Dickie) suggests that mitigation could be applied

    https://we.tl/t-4eEOaWxM31?src=dnl

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Meanwhile then - are we saying that if MT had got arms round North and still smashed him in the head with his shoulder it would be a yellow? Because if that is true under the guidelnes that is ridiculous - it's stiull forceful contact with the head!!
    Not for me no, it still gets to Red if I consider the mitigating factors - however some are claiming the drop in height was a factor (not for me), others claim he didn't mean it so let him off!! - I was more questioning whether I should be considering mitigation if it happens to me at Lower Weedsville 2s next weekend!

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Not for me no, it still gets to Red if I consider the mitigating factors - however some are claiming the drop in height was a factor (not for me), others claim he didn't mean it so let him off!! - I was more questioning whether I should be considering mitigation if it happens to me at Lower Weedsville 2s next weekend!
    But there are no mitigating factors in the 6N - see above?

    As it is - and in the wider context as Flish says - for me the mitigating factor (so to speak) is notthe drop in height but the fact North didnt end up as far advanced downfield as MT suspected due to Slades execellent chop tackle. That led to a no arms collision and a total loss of timing in the tackle at the evry very last nano second..

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 09-03-20 at 10:03.

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    So this is the 6N guidelines
    They state clearly that no mitigation is applied where the tackle illegal from the outset (eg a shoulder charge)

    This is different from the published framework which (I now agree Dickie) suggests that mitigation could be applied

    https://we.tl/t-4eEOaWxM31?src=dnl
    They state clearly that no mitigation is applied where the tackle illegal from the outset (eg a shoulder charge)
    I looked for this clear statement. Couldn't find it
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    But there are no mitigating factors in the 6N - see above?

    As it is - and in the wider context as Flish says - for me the mitigating factor (so to speak) is notthe drop in height but the fact North didnt end up as far advanced downfield as MT suspected due to Slades execellent chop tackle. That led to a no arms collision and a total loss of timing in the tackle at the evry very last nano second..

    didds
    Surely the "no arms" collision resulted from the fact that MT had his right arm folded across his chest? The drop in height did not cause that.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: No Mitigation? (High Tackle)

    But a no Arms collision isn't automatically a RC. Only if t here's Head Contact does it start there. Then with mitigation (if applicable), it can be reduced to a YC.

    MT's once wouldn't have resulted in head contact if it hadn't been for Slade's tackle. So I'd have said that mitigation was applicable in normal circumstances. Are we saying that the 6 nations aren't using the World Rugby framework?

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