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  1. #11

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    Default Re: New record

    161-0 at West of Scotland. In the snow. At Atlantic Park.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: New record

    First team I ever coached in the first year at U16 lost 115 - 0 in one of their first matches, many had not played before that year. Never gave up just not good enough. Played that team twice more that season lost by just 40ish points the 2nd time beat them the third.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: New record

    128-0 back in 2014. At 104-0 after 60 minutes the losing team asked to call it off, but the winning team claimed they needed the points. Not long after that the referee correctly called it off for safety reasons.

    The winning team's claim was wrong. With one game to go they could not win promotion however many points they scored.

    Curiously, both teams are now defunct.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #14

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    128-0 back in 2014. At 104-0 after 60 minutes the losing team asked to call it off, but the winning team claimed they needed the points.

    Herein lies the problem... because leagues MAY require points difference to decdie promotion/relegation, weak teams that get saughtered every week HAVE to be slaughtered by their opponents to maintain the mini status quo (we see this in some measure with Italy in the 6N). And the week the weak team cries off and offers a walkover sees the "winning" team awarded (maybe?) +25 rather than the +100 they may have scored - which is inequitable overall .

    And a one off match where one team is severely weaked for whatever reason (weddings, illness etc) gives that week's oppnents an unfair advantage over its rivals when they can post 100 points against a side everybody else may well have not come even close - or even lost t in normal circumstances.

    there are teams round these parts that have access to miltary players, that are amost two teams depending on whether their soldiers etc are available or not. One week they win by 30 points, the next they lose by 20.

    It's why I've long advocated a 50 point cut off. Once a side has a lead of 50 points its game over. 50 points awarded for a walkover. It needs a few caveats - a very string wind may have a huge advantage if 50 points is scored before half time etc - i've not thought it through fully as it will never happen :-)
    Last edited by didds; 17-03-20 at 12:03.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Herein lies the problem... because leagues MAY require points difference to decdie promotion/relegation, weak teams that get saughtered every week HAVE to be slaughtered by their opponents to maintain the mini status quo (we see this in some measure with Italy in the 6N). And the week the weak team cries off and offers a walkover sees the "winning" team awarded (maybe?) +25 rather than the +100 they may have scored - which is inequitable overall .

    And a one off match where one team is severely weaked for whatever reason (weddings, illness etc) gives that week's oppnents an unfair advantage over its rivals when they can post 100 points against a side everybody else may well have not come even close - or even lost t in normal circumstances.

    there are teams round these parts that have access to miltary players, that are amost two teams depending on whether their soldiers etc are available or not. One week they win by 30 points, the next they lose by 20.

    It's why I've long advocated a 50 point cut off. Once a side has a lead of 50 points its game over. 50 points awarded for a walkover. It needs a few caveats - a very string wind may have a huge advantage if 50 points is scored before half time etc - i've not thought it through fully as it will never happen :-)
    I prefer to avoid using points difference as a tie-breaker. Much better is comparing scores in the head-to-head matches. We use that locally in our merit leagues (because I wrote the regulations).
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I prefer to avoid using points difference as a tie-breaker. Much better is comparing scores in the head-to-head matches. We use that locally in our merit leagues (because I wrote the regulations).
    Now that makes much more sense! As ever, one can see holes in that solution, but at least it is a direct correleation solution.

    didds

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I prefer to avoid using points difference as a tie-breaker. Much better is comparing scores in the head-to-head matches. We use that locally in our merit leagues (because I wrote the regulations).
    I personally am very much against H2H as a tiebreaker, since it's randomly double-counting a game. With points differential, you're at least looking at the total body of work. In a different activity (quizbowl/scholar bowl/uni challenge), someone actually did a study over several years of events where teams that ended up tied in record played a tiebreaker, and assessed how often two different statistical tiebreakers and H2H were predictive of the tiebreaker. H2H was predictive less than half of the time.

    IMO, if using points and there were forfeits involved (ie a bottom feeder got slaughtered by one team involved in the tie and forfeited against the other), throw out that one game since you can't make an apples to apples comparison.

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by smeagol View Post
    I personally am very much against H2H as a tiebreaker, since it's randomly double-counting a game. With points differential, you're at least looking at the total body of work. In a different activity (quizbowl/scholar bowl/uni challenge), someone actually did a study over several years of events where teams that ended up tied in record played a tiebreaker, and assessed how often two different statistical tiebreakers and H2H were predictive of the tiebreaker. H2H was predictive less than half of the time.

    IMO, if using points and there were forfeits involved (ie a bottom feeder got slaughtered by one team involved in the tie and forfeited against the other), throw out that one game since you can't make an apples to apples comparison.
    If you wish to advocate a tie-breaker match, fine. Tricky with a triple tie, but fortunately that is rare to vanishing.
    However the "total body of work" argument includes ramping up the score against weak teams, which I am opposed to.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #19

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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    However the "total body of work" argument includes ramping up the score against weak teams, which I am opposed to.
    indeed OB - and see my examples above as to how such solutions can get skewed by odd weekends and scenarios

    didds

  10. #20
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    Default Re: New record

    Quote Originally Posted by smeagol View Post
    I personally am very much against H2H as a tiebreaker, since it's randomly double-counting a game. With points differential, you're at least looking at the total body of work. In a different activity (quizbowl/scholar bowl/uni challenge), someone actually did a study over several years of events where teams that ended up tied in record played a tiebreaker, and assessed how often two different statistical tiebreakers and H2H were predictive of the tiebreaker. H2H was predictive less than half of the time.

    IMO, if using points and there were forfeits involved (ie a bottom feeder got slaughtered by one team involved in the tie and forfeited against the other), throw out that one game since you can't make an apples to apples comparison.
    You assume that the tiebreaker is the gold standard, though. A tiebreaker at the end of a season can favour a team with more depth as injuries take less toll, or a second team who can call up a couple of first team players whose seasons are over, not to mention one-offs such as weddings (planned for after the regular season) affecting one team, etc. H2H generally gives two points randomly through the season, and an extra competitive edge to keep the level up throughout the season against the best-matched opponents you'll meet. Less "well, we're two games ahead, we can afford to throw this one as the rest of the season is easy."

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