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Thread: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decision?

      
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    Default SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decision?

    Morning everyone
    As there's no live rugby at present, Sky are showing the South Africa v B&I Lions tour from 2009. In the 8th minute of the first test, this happened - what are your thoughts on the decision made by the ref?

    7-0 to SA - Red 11 goes for the try line at the left hand corner under a legitimate tackle from green 14, lands short, momentum takes him over the try line where green 12 joins the "tackle" but off his feet. As red 11 looks to ground the ball in goal for a try, green 12 strips the ball which goes in to touch in goal. A try here if converted brings the game to 7-7 so a huge moment in this game and the whole tour.

    Ref calls TMO for a decision - try or no try?

    TMO states attacking scrum 5m as green played the ball last but without giving a clear reason why this should be even though asked 3 times by the ref.

    Ref disagrees and awards 22m re-start.

    I stopped the recording here to try and work through the decision and came up with the following:

    1) Red in possession but held up in goal = 5m attacking scrum - not held up long enough so unlikely.
    2) Green 12 the last to play the ball, ball went in to touch in goal, but carried in to in goal by red therefore made dead by green = 22m restart (the refs decision making process I suspect)

    or, and this is the reason for my post...

    3) Green 12 strips the ball whilst off his feet = penalty try red....???

    Green 12 clearly off his feet and denies red 11 a try scoring opportunity so by my reckoning penalty try and probable yellow card. Granted this was 2009 but I'm not aware of any law changes in the interim where neither of the 2 actions above would not be taken. I'd be interested in your responses...!

    Cheers,

    Andy.

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    Thinking about this further, if green 12 had simply gone to ground to prevent the ball being touched down for the try, then I can't see there being an issue here, resulting decision attacking scrum 5m. My thoughts are that as he stripped the ball, this is illegal (?) hence penalty try...second guessing myself hence the original query...!

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    22DO would be correct call IMHO.
    Stripping on ground not an issue...ingoal.

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    Sounds like Ugo Moyne feels it was 1) on your list.
    Eight minutes into the first Test, with the Lions 7-0 down, he went over in the left corner only for the television match official to finally rule he had not grounded the ball, with Springboks centre Jean de Villiers getting his hand under it.
    "I am not sure you will ever see a tackle like that again," Monye said. "I was six inches from the ground, God knows how he got his arm under the ball, it is just beyond me."
    ]
    Source
    But can see why the referee might have disagreed, preventing the grounding by getting a hand under it momentarily, is quite different from held up ingoal.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 18-04-20 at 14:04.

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    The Law book is very explicit that you are not allowed to play the ball from the floor (although back in 2009 the Law wording was less definitive on this)

    However it seems to be a general convention that this Law does not apply in the in goal

    So I agree with the ref, 22m drop out

    (Shame Ugo didn't manage to knock it on, as he would have gained considerable advantage by doing that :-) )

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    CA748E5D-5DC2-44BA-A75E-174E813A36A5.jpg Lions winger Ugo Monye dives for the line but the try was not given as Jean de Villiers (#12) puts his arm underneath to stop the ball being grounded during the first test match between South African Springboks and the British and Irish Lions at Absa Kings Park Stadium on June 20, 2009 in Durban, South Africa.

    Referee: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand).
    Assistant referees: Stuart Dickinson, Vinny Munro (New Zealand)
    Television match official: Christophe Berdos (France)

    Perhaps a language barrier (accents) prevented clear communication between the Ref and TMO.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 18-04-20 at 15:04.

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    Relive: The First British and Irish Lions Test 2009 - Full Test
    About 20 minutes into the video, you can watch /listen to the Frenchman struggle to make himself understood.
    Although in fairness the Kiwi could have made more efforts on his part.

    12.11
    Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.

    Acceptable decision, but the miscommunication on TV isn’t great for the image of the game
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 18-04-20 at 16:04.

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    I have forgotten the match.
    How did the ball get to TIG?
    Is there scope for a penalty for deliberately throwing the ball into touch?

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    High tackle by Green #14. PT.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: SA v B&I Lions 1st Test-Monye "try" over ruled - what should have been the decisi

    In 2009 ref made the right decision. Today as Dickie E points out high tackle penalty try. The issue of playing tha ball on the ground is interesting but I think what happened here is he went to ground to play the ball as distinct from being on the ground and playing the ball.

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