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  1. #251

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    Dickie E's Avatar

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    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #252

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    Default Re: the Chiefs


    That is just brilliant...so many truths spoken!
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  3. #253

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Crossref.... care to comment?
    This is the "I have black friends" defence

    Of course opinions differ. You have found an NZ Somali quoted as saying it's ok and think that proves you right, but other muslims will have a different view. So what ? Different views are available

    .(aside , I also worry that he preferred to be anonymous .does that mean the guardian couldn't find anyone to talk about this with their name given? What would that say about the issue in Christchurch?)


    So where do we stand

    We have agreed that it was wrong for the mascots to dress up as medieval religious crusaders ... . I think they still are.

    We agree that it would be wrong for the team to be named in memory of the medieval religious crusaders ... I think they were named in memory of religious crusaders .. (evidenced by all the original branding)
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 06:07.

  4. #254

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Back to the Chiefs anyone seen any details about the claim that the name was in use in the 1900s ?

  5. #255

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post

    So where do we stand

    We have agreed that it was wrong for the mascots to dress up as medieval religious crusaders ... .
    I haven't agreed to that. What I have agreed to is that if there is a legitimate group that feel offended (and not just professional SJWs) then I am happy to discuss & resolve the matter amicably.

    For the purpose of clarity, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong, per se, in people dressing up as historical figures. If I went to a fancy dress party and someone was dressed as Adolf Hitler, no big deal for me. I do recognise that others may have issues. Such is life.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 1 Week Ago at 07:07.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  6. #256

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Not all Muslims are okay with the Crusaders.
    The Islamists’ message includes this word.
    Despite the cruel and brutal nature of Tarrant’s attack, he describes it as a defensive action meant to convey a clear message to the ‘invaders’ that the lands and countries of white people will never be theirs and that they will never replace the white race.
    A similar message is conveyed by Islamist terrorists who present their actions as defensive and as a response to colonialism and the conquest of the lands, resources and holy sites of Islam by ‘crusaders’ and Jews.
    I suppose it's like the ticking crocodile, isn't it? Time is chasing after all of us.” ― J.M. Barrie

  7. #257

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Not all Muslims are okay with the Crusaders.
    Sorry if I missed it but I can't see any reference to the Crusaders rugby team in your link
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  8. #258

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Sorry if I missed it but I can't see any reference to the Crusaders rugby team in your link
    obviously amongst muslims (same as non-musliims) there are a wide range of nuanced opinions. I really don't see the point of everyone trying to find a muslim person in line with our own particualr viewpoint) but google is your friend

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...sclient=psy-ab

  9. #259

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    This is the "I have black friends" defence
    Err, wrong! It defies belief that you have the sheer gall to bring it up!

    The "I have black friends" defence (which you have misquoted anyway - its actually the "some of my best friends are black" defence) ONLY applies when it is used by racists defending their racism. When you make mention of the multicultural community you live in, and the people you live and work with, that is not a "defence" its a statement of fact!

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Of course opinions differ. You have found an NZ Somali quoted as saying it's ok and think that proves you right
    Wrong again.

    What I have found doesn't "prove" anything... what it shows is that your implication all muslims are offended by the name and therefore want it changed (and make no mistake, that is what you are implying merely by taking the position you are) is completely wrong; its pure BS. There is no such universal call for change from our Islamic community.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    but other muslims will have a different view. So what ? Different views are available
    Indeed they are, but the vast majority of people across the whole demographic of Christchurch do not want the name changed - polls vary from 79% to 93% in favour keeping the name, and the remainder are mostly undecided or don't care, and its worth noting that, when polled on the idea of removing the imagery, the vast majority thought it should go - last time I looked, we live in a democracy, the people have spoken! Also worth noting that polls with the lower numbers in favour of keeping the name are older ones and closer to the time tragedy of the mosque shootings - results that are understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    (aside , I also worry that he preferred to be anonymous
    Why would that worry you?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    So where do we stand?

    We have agreed that it was wrong for the mascots to dress up as medieval religious crusaders
    I don't agree 100%, but I accept that is probably the best compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think they still are.
    Then you are blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    We agree that it would be wrong for the team to be named in memory of the medieval religious crusaders ... I think they were named in memory of religious crusaders .. (evidenced by all the original branding)
    Yep, and there is nothing at all wrong with keeping the name and associating it with some other meaning, as long at that meaning is valid for the name.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 1 Week Ago at 12:07.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  10. #260

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    obviously amongst muslims (same as non-musliims) there are a wide range of nuanced opinions. I really don't see the point of everyone trying to find a muslim person in line with our own particualr viewpoint) but google is your friend

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB774GB774&sxsrf=ALeKk00c2EattYD4NcURQHHPF8fN54F-bg%3A1596185836737&ei=7NwjX-3QLMfT1fAP47K1sAk&q=muslims+call+for+crusaders+nam e+change&oq=muslims+cal+for+crusaders+name+change& gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgcIIxCwAhAnUIMtWIMtYKc4aAB wAHgAgAFBiAGAAZIBATKYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&scli ent=psy-ab
    Have a look at those results, and tell me if you can spot something important about them!
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

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