PDA

View Full Version : Fending



FightOrFlight
30-04-14, 00:04
This is something that you hear more and more from spectators, players and coaches. What is legal as far as the fend?

The way I see it and referee it is the way I was thought it and had it refereed when I was a kid. As long as it is wrist before elbow and an open hand it is legal although if someone is consistently fending all forearm I will be having a word. You often hear "oh ref hand off to the face" but I remember being told over and over that an aul custard pie to the face was a symptom of not getting low enough in the tackle. Now if a guy has a closed fist and is sparking out anyone trying to make a tackle that is a PK and probably more but open hand is and always has been ok in my book.

I think you can split it into a few categories:

*Hand off to face

*Lead with forearm(horizontal with wrist and elbow in line)

*Push off with above forearm configuration

4eyesbetter
30-04-14, 01:04
There's a difference between putting your hand on someone's head and pushing, and striking out with your hand to meet the head (an open-palm strike like that is very arguably more dangerous than a punch; at the very least, it's a great way to troll martial arts types, and should be treated the same as punching); the one-eyed rather unsurprisingly can sometimes have difficulty telling whether it was a strike or a fend.

smeagol
01-05-14, 07:05
I see no immediate issue with a hand to the face, but if I have the angle, I keep an eye on where the fingers are going.

The forearm is fine, but if I see it go above the shoulders, I will have a word with the player.

crossref
01-05-14, 10:05
This is something that you hear more and more from spectators, players and coaches. What is legal as far as the fend?

The way I see it and referee it is the way I was thought it and had it refereed when I was a kid. As long as it is wrist before elbow and an open hand it is legal although if someone is consistently fending all forearm I will be having a word. You often hear "oh ref hand off to the face" but I remember being told over and over that an aul custard pie to the face was a symptom of not getting low enough in the tackle. Now if a guy has a closed fist and is sparking out anyone trying to make a tackle that is a PK and probably more but open hand is and always has been ok in my book.

I think you can split it into a few categories:

*Hand off to face

*Lead with forearm(horizontal with wrist and elbow in line)

*Push off with above forearm configuration

hand-offs to the face is an urban myth of junior rugby, where many people believe they are banned, but it's not the case. Hand-offs are either allowed, or not allowed depending on the age group, but once allowed there are no special rules about them.

Dixie
01-05-14, 12:05
The open-palm hand-off to the face is broadly fine, unless an age-group variation is in place disallowing it. Many people feel confident asserting the existence of such a variation, without ever actually checking to see. Local referees should make sure that if there is only one informed person at the game, it is them. I say "broadly" because as 4eyesbetter points out,


There's a difference between putting your hand on someone's head and pushing, and striking out with your hand to meet the head (an open-palm strike like that is very arguably more dangerous than a punch; at the very least, it's a great way to troll martial arts types, and should be treated the same as punching);

The forearm smash (or fend, as it is sometimes known) is an entirely different beast, in both junior and adult rugby. Law 7 may now help us with this. Until a few years ago, the hand-off was clearly allowed, but not mentioned in law. Thus, people felt able to extrapolate, and infer that a forearm fend was also legitimate.

Law 7 has been amended to clarify that a hand-off is legitimate. The hand-off is defined as

An action taken by a ball carrier to fend off an opponent by using the palm of the hand.

To me, the fact that the laws committee recognised a gap in the laws regarding a fend-off, and consciously filled that gap with a permit for the hand-off but not the forearm smash, is a clear indication that the forearm is not, and probably never was, acceptable as a tool to fend off an opponent. It is, after all, much harder and much more focused a strike than the palm of the hand.

Stuartg
01-05-14, 13:05
I had an U12 coach moaning the other week about an opponent holding the ball in front of him and using it to fend off an opponent. I gave him a look to say "What are you on?"

crossref
01-05-14, 14:05
I had an U12 coach moaning the other week about an opponent holding the ball in front of him and using it to fend off an opponent. I gave him a look to say "What are you on?"

actually, he may have been right.

this is from the U10 New Rules of Play

6. The Tackle:
a) Only the ball carrier can be tackled. The ball carrier can run and dodge
potential tacklers but cannot fend them off using their hands (hand off) or
the ball.

unfortunately the U12 New Rules of Play have been omited from the RFU website (so far as I can tell) but if hand-offs are banned at U12 (as I beleive is the case?) then probably the same definition is used, so can't hand off with the ball.



Aside : surely it's the most basic responsibility of the RFU is to publish their laws of the game on their website?

colesy
01-05-14, 15:05
My understanding is that the fend off is prohibited at U12 and below although I can't find the appropriate regulations. I certainly know that the little devils do like to try this 'new' (to them) technique when they get to U13 but the novelty soon wears off.

Dan Cottrell
10-09-14, 17:09
It seems that senior teams (and those on the TV of course) are using the forearm fend more and more. Is this just referee oversight or have I missed something?

TheBFG
10-09-14, 17:09
fend across the chest, might have a word, but if they go higher :nono:

by the way nothing has changed (as you asked)

Dan Cottrell
10-09-14, 18:09
fend across the chest, might have a word, but if they go higher :nono:

by the way nothing has changed (as you asked)

So forearm to chest is fine?

OB..
10-09-14, 19:09
So forearm to chest is fine?As ever, it has to be a push rather than a hit, etc. Forearm is riskier than a hand.

Dixie
10-09-14, 19:09
So forearm to chest is fine? Dan, you'll be very aware that these things are rarely black and white. Can a ball carrier charge into an opponent, protecting his ribs from the impact with his arm, such that the impact is made by the triceps/biceps held tight against the chest? If the answer to that is yes, then can the ball carrier, immediately after impact, lever his arm upwards to push the defender away? And if the answer to that is yes, what if he gets the timing very slightly wrong and starts to lever up marginally before impact?

As a rule of thumb, I take the view that a forearm fend is dangerous and illegal. Where I see the forearm being used as a weapon, I would ping it (or want to see it pinged). Where the action is less overtly intended and/or dangerous, a "word" may suffice as BFG says. But surely, the overall objective should be to educate the forearm smash out of the game.

Browner
11-09-14, 17:09
10.4(a) refers to "strike"

If I'm satisfied its not a strike, then its OK.

Theorectically the same considerations for U13 development players ..& .. u19 international player .... But by u19 the pro's have got them!

ctrainor
12-09-14, 21:09
I have penalised players before for a hit to the face with an open hand. It's like the red card scenario you just know