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View Full Version : Sir, what's your rule on dump tackles?



crossref
13-10-14, 18:10
I will share this for your general amusement as it was quite odd.

U14 match, quick PMB and

"any questions?"

Centre : "Yes, Sir what's your rule on dump tackles? Because I am allowed to do them at school but I've been told I can't do them on Sundays"

Me: "Ok, that's odd, because the same Laws apply at school and clubs. But tell me, what exactly do you mean by a dump tackle?"

"It's when I lift them up, tip them and drop them"

"OK. Well, if you were to do that today I am afraid I would have to send you off"

"OK, thought so, but just checking because we're allowed to do it at school"

"Well, actually no you are NOT allowed to do it at school..."

[as he turns to rejoin his team mates] "yes we are!"

Browner
13-10-14, 18:10
"OK, thought so, but just checking because we're allowed to do it at school"



"Oh, I can see your confusion....... Most laws/rules/rfu regs/safety/guidance doesnt apply to schools ......... Which is your school ?"

Stuartg
13-10-14, 20:10
"Oh, I can see your confusion....... Most laws/rules/rfu regs/safety/guidance doesnt apply to schools ......... Which is your school ?"

As soon as I see someone lifting in a tackle there is an immediate shout from me of 'Don't lift him'. Prevention is better than cure.

ctrainor
13-10-14, 23:10
I would be tempted to find out the school and get someone to have a word.
This could be happening in training sessions.

didds
14-10-14, 00:10
I am with CT.

didds

FightOrFlight
14-10-14, 16:10
"Oh, I can see your confusion....... Most laws/rules/rfu regs/safety/guidance doesnt apply to schools ......... Which is your school ?"

He should come to Ireland where that's actually true...

crossref
14-10-14, 17:10
I think it would be a bit OTT for me as ref to try and find the school (he was from the away club - the school would have been 40 miles away)

TBH it's much more likely to be a misapprehesion bythe boy than some school in Hertfordshire actually coaching 13/14 yr olds to tip tackle.

I could have had a quick word with his coaches, but from what the boy said the coaches were evidently well aware of the issue.

didds
14-10-14, 20:10
Lets just hope we don' read of some lad with a broken nec tip tackled playing versus school X then...

Its not about being a ref. Its about being in a position of trust whereby you have come across some fairly seriously concerning news.

One would hope that his club coaches will also have this in mind if they are aware of it.

But hoping somebody else has acted upon it is one hope too far. IMO. YMMV.

All it would take is to find out which school, and then let an RDO know (say). That's all that is needed. I know schools are loose cannons - but that's no excuse for not doing anything. IMO. YYMV.

didds

Pegleg
14-10-14, 23:10
I'd report it.

Shelflife
14-10-14, 23:10
He should come to Ireland where that's actually true...

Not sure what games you've seen ,but any schools games that I've been involved in apply the correct laws all the time.

crossref
14-10-14, 23:10
come on -- I'd end up ringing some school coach and saying
'young Joe Bloggs tells me he's allowed to tip tackle at school'
(snorts withlaughter) 'Joe Bloggs told you that? And you believed him? What a prat. No, of course we don't teach them to tip tackle'

Does anyone really think there's a school out there with a delibearate tip tackle policy

FightOrFlight
14-10-14, 23:10
Not sure what games you've seen ,but any schools games that I've been involved in apply the correct laws all the time.

Rules, regulations and advisory thing go out the window in Leinster Schools Sec C some of the time.

Laws in a game may be applied but off the field etc they make it up as they see fit.

Pegleg
15-10-14, 00:10
1. cover your backside.

2. The school can "clarify" the lad's "miss-understanding".

3. cover your backside.

4. cover your backside.

Oh did I mention....


5. COVER YOUR BACKSIDE.


There are coaches out there with all sorts of ideas and "tricks". I know of a teacher who has been subject to several code of conduct reports. One of which was made following a schools game.

Of course you don't have to make the contact with the school. There will be a chain of contact for that. Also there will be an appropriate way of wording the comment with a bit more finesse that your "suggestion".

TigerCraig
15-10-14, 00:10
Of course you don't have to make the contact with the school. There will be a chain of contact for that. Also there will be an appropriate way of wording the comment with a bit more finesse that your "suggestion".


Sounds like the Yes Minister episode "The Whisky Priest" - the Rhodesia solution

Something like "certain information has been made available to me in an off the record capacity that tends to possibly indicate certain unknown individuals having potentially incited some other individuals whose names are also unknown to me to undertake some action which may be considered by some persons as having some liklihood of infringing Law 10, and it may be worth considering someone taking some action in regards to this information at some time"

didds
15-10-14, 01:10
Does anyone really think there's a school out there with a delibearate tip tackle policy

Clearly there appears to be on the facts as presented.

If that isn;t the case - nobody's bothered.

And presumably you woudn't be phoning the school coach to check - he is hardly going to admit it!!

didds

manager
17-10-14, 13:10
Had to laugh. This is perhaps the most extreme case of school v 'the rest' that I've ever come across. As a parent who watches both school and club rugby (currently U15) it's always a gamble as to which interpretation of the game I'm going to see from week to week. My current favourite is the rule about the opposing scrum-half not venturing beyond the tunnel. Schools seem to ignore it. But we have it easy compared to the lower age groups who have to grapple with the added complexities of the experimental small-sided variations.

davidgh
20-10-14, 11:10
I have heard a lot about schools applying a different set of rules, personally have never come across it.

Talk to the head, schools are much more sensitive about health and safety compliance than most rugby clubs. If the Headmaster thinks there is a risk of broken necks, and he has been told about it, preferably by email, he will act!

Have seen poor application of the Law and variations at particularly at younger ages, and some pretty shocking reffing, but this is no different than club rugby!!

Dan_A
20-10-14, 14:10
I have heard a lot about schools applying a different set of rules, personally have never come across it.



My son started at secondary school last year. He plays club rugby and school rugby. For his club he played the same set of rules all year against all opposition.

For his school, every Saturday there would be a conversation as to whether it was 13-a-side or 15-a-side. And whether hand-offs were allowed, depending on which school they were playing and what rules they had adopted.

It's a very real, and ridiculous, situation, at least at u12 level!

crossref
20-10-14, 14:10
My son started at secondary school last year. He plays club rugby and school rugby. For his club he played the same set of rules all year against all opposition.

For his school, every Saturday there would be a conversation as to whether it was 13-a-side or 15-a-side. And whether hand-offs were allowed, depending on which school they were playing and what rules they had adopted.

It's a very real, and ridiculous, situation, at least at u12 level!

indeed. The RFU and the ESRFU have a lot to answer for. It's been - what? - twenty or thirty years since the explosion of age group rugby in clubs, and they still havent' sorted out a single set of Laws.
Histroically U12 is the very worst year for it. From u13 at least everyone is playing 15-a-side.

I wonder if the ESRFU have adopted all the new rules of play - anyone know?

Browner
20-10-14, 15:10
I have heard a lot about schools applying a different set of rules, personally have never come across it.

Talk to the head, schools are much more sensitive about health and safety compliance than most rugby clubs. If the Headmaster thinks there is a risk of broken necks, and he has been told about it, preferably by email, he will act!

Have seen poor application of the Law and variations at particularly at younger ages, and some pretty shocking reffing, but this is no different than club rugby!!

I know a state school who played a U15 player up in a U18 fixture, when the sports teacher was challenged on the decision all that happened was the other sports teachers and head closed ranks and withdrew communication with the u15s club coach who'd raised the query, that'll teach him to flag up the issue!!

The club coachs son soon stopped playing for the school team because he felt overlooked in favour of the teacher seemingly now giving opportunities to other new and 'emerging' schools players, the timing of their inclusion was remarkably 'coincidental'

Politics overrides safety. No point talking to the RDO, his office is in donated by the school !