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spikeno10
25-11-14, 12:11
All,
The RFU make mention of a pilot for U13s happening somewhere at the minute.
There is no mention of this anywhere on their sites with regards to the rules they are playing to but during the "blueprint rugby" roadshows the "aspirational" (not sure who's aspirations but...) idea for this age group was to be playing on half a pitch at 10 aside with non-contested scrums.
Does anyone know of this, had games of this nature?
I've asked Twickenham directly and received a very helpful silence on the matter.

crossref
25-11-14, 13:11
everything that I have seen suggests no change at u13, ie: 15-a-side game, played to the IRB U19 variations (with additional RFU variations as per Reg 15).

but you may know more than I do...

spikeno10
25-11-14, 13:11
Have now been provided with a copy of the current pilot regs and they are very much changed.
The RFU didn't supply it so will check it is valid before sharing but in my opinion a significant number of steps backwards.....

[edit: spelling]

menace
25-11-14, 13:11
All,
The RFU make mention of a pilot for U13s happening somewhere at the minute.
There is no mention of this anywhere on their sites with regards to the rules they are playing to but during the "blueprint rugby" roadshows the "aspirational" (not sure who's aspirations but...) idea for this age group was to be playing on half a pitch at 10 aside with non-contested scrums.
Does anyone know of this, had games of this nature?
I've asked Twickenham directly and received a very helpful silence on the matter.

Bloody hell, if that's for real then that is a backward step. Are all the fat boys getting too fat for a full field?
Do the players all get a trophy and certificate for turning up each game and taking to the field too? (Free cheeseburger if they catch the ball perhaps?)

spikeno10
25-11-14, 13:11
It looks like it

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 14:11
Guys,

10 per side and 5 man uncontested scrums are the rules being trialled at U12 this year, not U13.

Thanks,

Antony

spikeno10
25-11-14, 15:11
Guys,

10 per side and 5 man uncontested scrums are the rules being trialled at U12 this year, not U13.

Thanks,

Antony

Totally correct - the pilot is 12 aside for U13s........

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 16:11
Oooh, interesting. Can you post the PDF for the regulations?

Thanks,

Antony

spikeno10
25-11-14, 16:11
Document isn't PDF but have messaged you direct about it

crossref
25-11-14, 16:11
I found this

Under 13 New Rules Pilot
The RFU Council has agreed a pilot set of rules for the Under 13 game. The rules are designed to help build the transition from U12 New Rules towards 15-a-side rugby. This will be trialed as per the established New Rules of Play “system” in the 2014/15 season and then reviewed with the pilot counties. For the majority, there is no need to react at this stage! Discretionary and mandatory rollout would follow the timescales already established by RFU Council in all other counties, so 2016/17 and 2017/18 seasons respectively.
which also has an email address at the RFU
http://www.sussexrugby.co.uk/news/age-grade-competition-review-agcr-6746/

Winchester are evidently part of the pilot

RULES FOR U13s
• 12-a-side.
• 5 player uncontested scrum until 31 December, contested scrum from 1 January.
• No line outs.
Where teams are played from other counties variations to these laws may be played.
http://www.winchesterrugby.com/j/team-34295.html

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 17:11
So it looks like, as we all suspected, the NRoP will be extended beyond U12. Good thing as far as I am concerned, that jump between U12 NRoP and U13 (as is now) looked HUGE.

Thanks,

Antony

Dan_A
25-11-14, 18:11
I'm sure this will work brilliantly as long as the schools are told that they must also follow suit :chin:

crossref
25-11-14, 18:11
I'm sure this will work brilliantly as long as the schools are told that they must also follow suit :chin:

yes, that's very important. Indeed the different laws at school and club is the single biggest Law problem in youth rugby.

well, we can look at what is happening the U12 age group - any know if the U12 NROP being used in schools, at all ?

spikeno10
25-11-14, 19:11
Schools will never follow suit, but oddly the RFU state and continue to state the children can cope with the changes in the rules. Which by default means the the children can cope with the rules which sort of suggests that all of this a bet of a wild goose chase.
As the NRoP continue to extend which they will I wonder how long it will be before we see the scrum removed from the game as a whole as 18 year olds are too old to teach new skills too.......
The way in which this is also being rolled out, totally under the radar and without any form of challenge being listened to really doesn't work. The major point of the NRoP was recruitment and retention and these two measures have never been measured.

crossref
25-11-14, 19:11
I fear it may have the opposite effect on recruitment and retention and destroy club yoth rugby - the more the rules diverge the more children will make a choice between the two forms, and school will naturally win.
Clubs could become places just for kids at non-rugby schools, and that won't give them critical mass.

For me the MOST important thing I would work on if I was in charge is to try and get schools and clubs working together properly.

- FIRSTLY THE same rules at each age group. It's ridiculous expecting U13s to play different rules on Sat and Sunday

- structuring the season better : Many schools play one term of rugby, and even when they play two, the focus is the first term. I'd like to see schools competitins focussed in the first half of the season, with club rugby structured as development and friendly games before Christmas, and the youth leagues after christmas, dovetailing with the school season.
This would be especially helpful at U16 U17 U18 where it's physically to battering to play rugby on Sat and Sun, but changing the timing to pre and post christmas would mean they can do both.

- foster partnerships between schools and clubs. In some cases clubs helping to spread rugby in schools. sometime schools coach clubs. (schools sandwich clubs in quality: the best youth rugby is in schools, but also the most struggling youth rugby is in schools)

- seriosuly addressing County selections. This needs a thorugh shake up so that kids with club and school backgrounds can be selected fairly and equably.

- why not some club v school fixtures: winner of the Middlesex League plays Harrow. My local club play my local school.

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 20:11
Why can the English governing body of Rugby Union not tell the English schools that they must tow the line? There are two problems with the NRoP, the schools/clubs issue, and the shoddy way they are written. I have no problem with what they are trying to achieve with the NRoP, just the disjointed approach.

Antony

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 20:11
Well, we can look at what is happening the U12 age group - any know if the U12 NROP being used in schools, at all ?

U12 regulations are still on trial this year. It won't be adopted across the rest of the clubs until 2015/16 season.

Antony

Browner
25-11-14, 21:11
As the NRoP continue to extend which they will I wonder how long it will be before we see the scrum removed from the game as a whole as 18 year olds are too old to teach new skills too.......
The way in which this is also being rolled out, totally under the radar and without any form of challenge being listened to

......and then drop two players per team, and then uncontested tackles, and then teams retreating back to a 5-10m offside line ........... Aaaaargggghhhhhh I'm having a nightmare , where is my crucifix box , those devilled Rugbrawl leagueists have infiltrated the RFU thinktank focus groups.

spikeno10
25-11-14, 22:11
U12 regulations are still on trial this year. It won't be adopted across the rest of the clubs until 2015/16 season.

Antony

And that there is the whole problem, it was the same with the NRoP at U7, U8 etc. "It's a pilot ......" but "we'll adopt it next year". This was never a pilot as a pilot would have reviewed the findings. The findings for the original pilot are so flawed you can drive a tank through them but as clubs we were never allowed to challenge them without being cast in the role of trouble-makers.

Browner
26-11-14, 01:11
And that there is the whole problem, it was the same with the NRoP at U7, U8 etc. "It's a pilot ......" but "we'll adopt it next year". This was never a pilot as a pilot would have reviewed the findings. The findings for the original pilot are so flawed you can drive a tank through them but as clubs we were never allowed to challenge them without being cast in the role of trouble-makers.

You mean a predetermined outcome masquerading as a trial? , perish the thought !, wash your mouth out with soap young man, how very dare you.

Its a well trodden route to introduce new ideas, I'm thinking scrum engagement that was gteed to resolve all the elite scrum issues :sarc:

menace
26-11-14, 01:11
Schools will never follow suit, but oddly the RFU state and continue to state the children can cope with the changes in the rules. Which by default means the the children can cope with the rules which sort of suggests that all of this a bet of a wild goose chase.
As the NRoP continue to extend which they will I wonder how long it will be before we see the scrum removed from the game as a whole as 18 year olds are too old to teach new skills too.......
The way in which this is also being rolled out, totally under the radar and without any form of challenge being listened to really doesn't work. The major point of the NRoP was recruitment and retention and these two measures have never been measured.

Uncontested scrums and no Lineouts? :wtf:

This will soon be the English kids pre-game prep.

Coach: Here you go kids, don't forget to wrap yourself in this before we go on the field. Ask mummy or daddy if you need help.
3091

Ian_Cook
26-11-14, 05:11
Some of the stuff I am reading in this thread is beyond the pale. How on earth can you expect to grow good rugby players by wrapping them in cotton wool? Its madness! Some years ago WRU decided that kids playing with oddshaped rugby balls was too frustrating for them with the unreliable bounce so they decided that kids below a certain age would use soccer balls. Go figure.

Here is our U11, U12 and U13 Development model



School Year
Age Grade
Y6
U11
Y7
U12
Y8
U13
Comments


Numbers on Field
15
15
15
These numbers are maximums. If a team doesn’t have enough players to start a game, they lose the game, but a game should then be played with equal numbers.


Field Size
Full
Full
Full
For 15's must be full field.


Try
5pts
5pts
5pts
If score blowouts are occurring (ie 35+ at halftime), both coaches must meet and come to an agreement as to how they can generate a more even contest.


Conversion
2
2
2
Conversions are not to be taken further out than the 15m line.


Tackle
Yes
Yes
Yes
Tackle must be below the nipple. No fending to the head, face or neck regions.


Subs
Only at half time
Only at half time
Only at half time
There are no rolling subs. All players must play a half game. Reserves go on at halftime. Also applies to representative games.


Scrums
8
person
8
person
8
person
Contest and pushing only at U12 and U13. The push is limited to half a metre maximum. Safety is paramount.


Lineout
8 person
8 person
8 person
Lineouts can be contested from U11. There is to be no lineout lifting at any level.


Penalty
normal
normal
normal



Kicking(general play)
yes
yes
yes



Length of play
2 x 25
2 x 30
2 x 30
These are the maximums


Referee
Yes
Yes
yes
If no Playing Rugby referee, no tackling and no contested scrums.


Kick-off
Normal
Normal
Normal
There will be no lifting from kick-starts.



I suspect that Australia will be pretty much the same, with maybe minor differences.

Our U12 & U13 have fully contested scrums.

Girls and Boys play in the same teams up to U13

Line out and kick-off lifting starts at U14

Simon Thomas
26-11-14, 07:11
Winchester are evidently part of the pilot

http://www.winchesterrugby.com/j/team-34295.html

The whole of Hampshire is in the pilot trials.

Nothing to do with us at Society level, but personally I am very disappointed and disagree with the direction being taken by the Game custodians at the RFU.

menace
26-11-14, 11:11
I suspect that Australia will be pretty much the same, with maybe minor differences.

Our U12 & U13 have fully contested scrums.

Girls and Boys play in the same teams up to U13

Line out and kick-off lifting starts at U14

Pretty much, but we have contested scrums and lineouts from u10s, 1m push for scrum and no lifting. its full u19 law vars from u13. Here's our matrix for those remotely interested.
http://myrugby.rugby.com.au/myrugby/images/flip/2014/ModLaws/files/mobile/index.html#1

crossref
26-11-14, 12:11
the NZ guidelines published by Ian look like the clearest and most sensible thing I have ever seen in age group rugby.

It's also exactly the sort of matrix, well laid out, and good content, that I could see clubs AND schools agreeing to.

I love the rule about subs only at half time, that seems really sensible at those age groups, give the kids some security on the field and decent game time.
- I hate seeing coaches take a player off the field after one or two mistakes. humilated and sometime in tears
- I hate seeing kids on the sidelines who have been promised 'don't worry you will get on' getting more an more anxiouis as time goes on, eventually to be let on the pitch with 5 min to go.


I love this bit , putting it right back on the coaches.
If score blowouts are occurring (ie 35+ at halftime), both coaches must meet and come to an agreement as to how they can generate a more even contest.

Browner
26-11-14, 12:11
I agree, how very clear they read - great template.

Im surprised that nipples are referred to! ...armpit surely better?
+ 35pts in 25mins isn't easy to acheive +25 would make slightly more sense
0.5m push , that's hardly any !

crossref
26-11-14, 13:11
.

Im surprised that nipples are referred to! ...armpit surely better?
+ 35pts in 25mins isn't easy to acheive +25 would make slightly more sense
0.5m push , that's hardly any !

now you are really nit-picking ! (or nip picking)

RobLev
26-11-14, 14:11
I agree, how very clear they read - great template.

Im surprised that nipples are referred to! ...armpit surely better?
...!

Not if you've got mixed teams.

Camquin
26-11-14, 15:11
If you have not got 30 players - and this happens quite a bit in the girls game here - I prefer to see them playing on a reduced width.

In a reduced width, you can have a decent defensive line and rucks and mauls happen.
In a full width the winger gets the ball in space and scores, lather, rinse repeat.
Fine for those wanting to play sevens, lousy for the forwards.

You also need to reduce the scrum size so there are some backs.

However, if you do have 30 kids, get them all on the pitch - we do not want players standing watching.