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Stormkahn
25-11-14, 13:11
A question occurred to me whilst watching the Scotland vs NZ game recently and it's a slow day. The pundits were advocating that Scotland IIRC should have taken a quick restart and caught the Kiwis napping; the full regs seem to allow it by not disallowing it. The ref only needs to blow to start each half and not to restart after a score.

My reading of 4b was that the kicker cannot take the start until the receiving team are 7 meters back.

However it could be interpreted that receiving team players are offside unless 7 meters back when it is taken? If so then as long as the kick is taken from the correct spotter and the kicking team are behind him they can take it when they want regardless of whether the receiving team are in place.

thoughts?

Dave.

AntonyGoodman
25-11-14, 13:11
I agree with your reading of it. No quick restarts for NRoP.

Antony

didds
25-11-14, 15:11
Having seen and reffed mini-midi rugby (before NRoP) it is my experience that once you start allowing "immediate" restarts whatever the state of the opposition all you create is a arms race of who can get the ball back to the centre quickest and it becomes a ridiculous spectacle of endless scoring for the sake of scoring.

Definitely suppress this "tactic" - because it does nothing to develop anybody in any meaningful manner.

didds

menace
25-11-14, 22:11
who can get the ball back to the centre quickest and it becomes a ridiculous spectacle of endless scoring for the sake of scoring.


And here was I thinking that the idea of the game was to score more points than the other team?




Definitely suppress this "tactic" - because it does nothing to develop anybody in any meaningful manner.

I don't know about that? Those that try it and succeed learn to know when best they can use the tactic. Those that aren't awake to it soon learn to be ...otherwise they get trounced. Even if it does take them a few times to wake up to it....at least they learn from it to be ready for anything.

Let them use all the tactics I say...that's the point they need to develop by learning what works and when, and equally learn what others can and might do and when.

AntonyGoodman
26-11-14, 08:11
Also, for U11/U12 NRoP there is a decision to be made by the team that was scored against: Do they want to kick off, or receive the kick.

It is not clear from the regulations who the team have to tell that to, or even if they have to tell anyone. But I have currently been coming back to the middle as quickly as is reasonable, and asking the team that was scored against what they want to do at the restart. I then communicate that to the other team, and we crack on.

Antony

didds
26-11-14, 18:11
I'll have to disagree marauder... a U8s tag game that finishes 14-13 hasn;t developed anybody's playing levels at all. All its developed is the quickest kids running to the centre to start and score. Which they could clearly already do.

didds

menace
26-11-14, 22:11
I love it when I say something controversial and someone else gets blamed.....poor marauder!

(A 1 try/point game is always a good game in by books... No matter how many tries it was. They're learning expansive rugby! And I bet the kids enjoyed it. :grin:)

didds
27-11-14, 15:11
sorry marauder!

I'll bet the slower (mentally and physically) kid that never gets the ball and watches the speed merchants running around like mad things for the entire game didn't enjoy it as much...

didds

Dan_A
28-11-14, 10:11
When I was coaching tag age groups I always had them run back to half way after a score (either for or against) and be ready to start as soon as the referee allowed it. To be honest it was mainly a trick to stop them engaging in ridiculous roundball style celebrations when we scored but we did catch some teams napping from time to time.

crossref
28-11-14, 11:11
in these young age groups there is a balance

rugby is a curious game as it's a real mixture of brawn and brains, and quick thinking, and prepared moves def SHOULD be part of the game for young kids.

but on the other hand you do see occasional coaches focusing far too hard on shoiwing how they can design moves that will fool eight year olds. they don't necessarily do their kids a favour, if they are neglecting passing running, tackling, that kind of thing

Dan_A
28-11-14, 15:11
but on the other hand you do see occasional coaches focusing far too hard on shoiwing how they can design moves that will fool eight year olds. they don't necessarily do their kids a favour, if they are neglecting passing running, tackling, that kind of thing

This is fair comment. For me, at the younger age you really are trying to coach some game awareness and concentration too. Having everyone run back to their position lays the groundwork for hard work and alignment in defense etc etc when you get to contact. Teaching them to concentrate for 7mins and not switch off when play stops is a pretty hard task.

And just to share a quick story - years ago we were playing tag against a team and they were 1 try up when the referee called last play. The lad who received the ball simply ran off the pitch to end the game. Some of the parents on our touchline thought this was bad sportsmanship. Their coach was a bit sheepish. I thought that an 8 year old with that game sense was pretty impressive!

crossref
28-11-14, 16:11
And just to share a quick story - years ago we were playing tag against a team and they were 1 try up when the referee called last play. The lad who received the ball simply ran off the pitch to end the game. Some of the parents on our touchline thought this was bad sportsmanship. Their coach was a bit sheepish. I thought that an 8 year old with that game sense was pretty impressive!

I agree with you.
the one time something similar happened when I was coaching young kids, he was about 11 I think, and threw the ball into touch -- and was mortified to find it was a PK against him, and burst into tears!

Stormkahn
01-12-14, 08:12
Thanks for the replies guys, all good comments.

Generally both teams are a little slow after the try so there's no real scope to take a quick restart, the kicking team always have a little conflab about direction & distance. I do something pretty similar to Anthony and ask the conceding team captain what they want on the way back to half way and then announce it so everybody including the coaches are clear. When the receiving team are 7 meters back I'll then say kick when ready to the kicker.

QTP are a different kettel of fish though; when we're training I've taken to doing a 10 min skit on the rules based on some incident from the previous week. I take the lads through the laws around it + the coaches get to chip in with their tactical advice. So the previous week a QTP had been taken and the defense was called off side because, of course, their natural reaction was to tackle even though they're weren't even close to 7m back. Anywho that training game saw some QTPs taken and some easy tries scored, they avoided the offside penalties + they caught on quickly and were getting back pretty sharpish by the end.

This works for us, the lads get practical bite sized pieces of the law which I have to swot up on to give.

cheers,

Dave.

Foggy-Balla
10-12-14, 16:12
We always used to coach our boys to get back int defensive/attacking formation as soon as possible so they could stop a quick restart/take advantage of a disorganised defence. This was as much to guard against referees who allowed a quick restart than to try and benefit from them!

Current bugbear is inconsistency in refereeing (at U9) the law which says no one (including the receiver of the tap) can move before the ball is passed. I had quite a discussion with my Head Coach about this last Sunday.

As for teaching moves I find that hilarious. Either the children signal exactly what is going to happen with stage winks and whispers, or they have no idea what was going on.

At one of my lad's U8 School matches last season the coach of the oppo side kept jogging up and down the touchline shouting things like, "Jolyon, Execute &" or "Hugo, Five NOW!". Hugo and Jolyon spent the match scratching their heads and were rather crestfallen at the post-match tea because they had lost against our team of individuals and free spirits.

They thrashed us this year, though...