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Stormkahn
06-12-14, 18:12
When is a fly hack not a fly hack?

9A) Kicking on the ground is prohibited (often referred to as a ‘fly-hack’).

Seems straight forward, and not over thinking it but that means that trapping the ball or otherwise stopping/interacting with the ball with feet/legs is fine. As long as you don't actually kick it.

If you saw last nights Bath game you'd understand the inspiration for this question.

Enjoy your games tomorrow,

Dave.

Browner
06-12-14, 23:12
When is a fly hack not a fly hack?

9A) Kicking on the ground is prohibited (often referred to as a ‘fly-hack’).

Seems straight forward, and not over thinking it but that means that trapping the ball or otherwise stopping/interacting with the ball with feet/legs is fine. As long as you don't actually kick it.

If you saw last nights Bath game you'd understand the inspiration for this question.

Enjoy your games tomorrow,

Dave.

I didnt, what happened ?

Stormkahn
07-12-14, 14:12
I didnt, what happened ?
It has rained for a day and was still raining, it was a marsh. Anyway lots of kicking and the receivers were more incline to trap the ball or use their feet rather tan attempt to catch the greasy ball. Interesting game in it's way.

Dave.

Browner
07-12-14, 14:12
It has rained for a day and was still raining, it was a marsh. Anyway lots of kicking and the receivers were more incline to trap the ball or use their feet rather tan attempt to catch the greasy ball. Interesting game in it's way.

Dave.

Ah ha, i get the picture

then in the context of 'seeking to 'trap/stop' the ball or prevent a picking up handling error then it ought to be allowable at minis, but any attempts to 'dribble' the ball, nudge it away from an opponent, etc should be penaliseable.

My 2p anyway.

Foggy-Balla
10-12-14, 21:12
I've had U9 players complain to me that "he kicked it". I tend to make a judgement at the time - technically they aren't allowed to, but if a ball comes off a foot then I'll often let it go.

Back to materiality and contextuality!

Dixie
10-12-14, 21:12
I once reffed a final in which a kick out of hand had the Full Back of the receiving team chasing hard to catch the ball. He realised he was going to be just a bit short - so stuck out his foot and booted the ball into touch before it bounced.

I let it go as it was great skill and I was not sure it was a fly-hack. No-one mentioned the incident, and there was no outcry - but the fact that I'm mentioning it 10 years on indicates my state of mind regarding it at the time!

crossref
10-12-14, 22:12
I've had U9 players complain to me that "he kicked it". I tend to make a judgement at the time - technically they aren't allowed to, but if a ball comes off a foot then I'll often let it go.

Back to materiality and contextuality!

it's a really tricky one, I think, and I can remember discussing this back in the day when I was coaching/reffing kids.

letting them control a loose ball with their feet seems to be only common sense, why not?
so you let it go.. ... and then next thing is a ball is loose 50cm from the try line, a players controls it with his feet, if goes forward 50cm and he drops on it to score...

Stormkahn
11-12-14, 07:12
I concur really, seems to me the RFU have very sensibly introduced 9b on safety grounds, after all we don't want over excited U11s trying to kick the ball out of a ruck and getting a head instead.

So until told otherwise I will only blow if it's a deliberate kick on the ground. If they use their feet to trap then play on.

cheers guys, wise as always.

Dave.

crossref
11-12-14, 07:12
a friend of mine reffed an adult tournament with no fly hacking rule. A loose ball hit the feet of a running player and went a small distance forward. He played on. Of course the 'kicker' managed to gather the ball and score the winning try ...

Dan_A
11-12-14, 10:12
I concur really, seems to me the RFU have very sensibly introduced 9b on safety grounds

I'm sure safety WAS there key concern but there is also a good skills reason. My U13 team are now allowed to fly hack. It drives me crazy that whenever there is a loose ball we have some clumsy teenager fly hacking the ball in any direction and more often than not giving the ball straight back to the opposition!!

I'm trying to condition them to drop on the ball but it's hard going!

crossref
11-12-14, 10:12
I'm sure safety WAS there key concern but there is also a good skills reason. My U13 team are now allowed to fly hack. It drives me crazy that whenever there is a loose ball we have some clumsy teenager fly hacking the ball in any direction and more often than not giving the ball straight back to the opposition!!

I'm trying to condition them to drop on the ball but it's hard going!

they don't learn it from the coach telling them ..... they learn it one boy at a time because of more often than not giving the ball straight back to the opposition!! :)

Browner
11-12-14, 11:12
I'm sure safety WAS there key concern but there is also a good skills reason. My U13 team are now allowed to fly hack. It drives me crazy that whenever there is a loose ball we have some clumsy teenager fly hacking the ball in any direction and more often than not giving the ball straight back to the opposition!!

I'm trying to condition them to drop on the ball but it's hard going!

OR

Coach : " from now on I will immediately 'replace' any player who boots the ball instead of dropping on it, OK??!! as our need to improve our ball recover skills outweighs our need to play footykicky OK?"

........ Sorted :biggrin:

Foggy-Balla
11-12-14, 18:12
it's a really tricky one, I think, and I can remember discussing this back in the day when I was coaching/reffing kids.

letting them control a loose ball with their feet seems to be only common sense, why not?
so you let it go.. ... and then next thing is a ball is loose 50cm from the try line, a players controls it with his feet, if goes forward 50cm and he drops on it to score...

My point was more that I let it go if the ball is burbling about on the floor and a player runs into it and it deflects off his foot. For a deliberate use of the foot, and bearing in mind that U9s aren't yet that good at hiding deliberate mischief, it would be turnover time!