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Chogan
15-12-14, 00:12
Anyone have an issue with a team collectively calling "Hold Hold Hold" while waiting for their opponents to take a penalty (not a kick at goal)?

menace
15-12-14, 01:12
AIUI, nothing specific in law that says they can't but I'd be assessing what was the point of them doing so and maybe pull out

(m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.

It all depends on the context of the game.
But probably have a quiet word with the captain after the first one asking him if it was really necessary and perhaps he might ask his players to have a little respect for the oppo.

didds
15-12-14, 01:12
why wouldn't they? its an incredibly standard defensive timing device. IMO a worthless one, cos they'd be better off silent with one voice calling the up that wasn't drowned out by everybody else shouting "hold" !!

Frankly if the oppo cant take a tap kick and pass whilst under the oh-so-intense-pressure of somebody 10m away shouting "hold" I think they need some professional help.

didds

menace
15-12-14, 01:12
So if they chanted "miss, miss,miss" would you be ok with that?

Chogan
15-12-14, 01:12
It's an interesting one that a coach raised with me in conversation. Like most verbal issues on the field there is a massive grey area in the interpretation of what is being said and how.
If in general play and the defensive team started calling it from a their pillars out, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid at it. I can't think of any team I've seen doing defensive drills that doesn't have a collective call followed by a trigger ("break, turf...") to signal the collective advance of a solid defensive line.

didds
15-12-14, 01:12
So if they chanted "miss, miss,miss" would you be ok with that?

but they don't....

Alterantively if they instead shouted

"fargle fargle fargle" ?

didds

Dickie E
15-12-14, 02:12
Anyone have an issue with a team collectively calling "Hold Hold Hold" while waiting for their opponents to take a penalty (not a kick at goal)?

Do you mean a kick for touch penalty or a tap penalty? If the former, I'd have an issue with it particularly if a mis-kick was the outcome.

Chogan
15-12-14, 02:12
Do you mean a kick for touch penalty or a tap penalty? If the former, I'd have an issue with it particularly if a mis-kick was the outcome.

The only difference is what happens once the ball has been struck by the penalty takers foot. There is a general difference to the shape of these things before it happens but both can become the other in the blink of an eye.

Dickie E
15-12-14, 03:12
The only difference is what happens once the ball has been struck by the penalty takers foot.

Sorry, I disagree.

If it's tap kick, I'd be OK with the chant.

If it's a precision punt for the corner, different matter.

Daftmedic
15-12-14, 08:12
but they don't....

Alterantively if they instead shouted

"fargle fargle fargle" ?

didds

Fragle?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn14/amyannbyrd/Wembly.jpg (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/amyannbyrd/media/Wembly.jpg.html)

crossref
15-12-14, 09:12
this post is about junior rugby.
I don't think the purpose of 'hold hold' is to put the oppo off, I think it is coached as a device for making the boys focus their attention on the PK.

Ian_Cook
15-12-14, 10:12
Fragle?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn14/amyannbyrd/Wembly.jpg (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/amyannbyrd/media/Wembly.jpg.html)

Fraggle?

Fragile?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QZHS4GNAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


NOT FRAGILE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7bQ1SI3wk)

menace
15-12-14, 11:12
this post is about junior rugby.
I don't think the purpose of 'hold hold' is to put the oppo off, I think it is coached as a device for making the boys focus their attention on the PK.

At PK at goal? Really?

I think it's more to put off the kicker...yes even at juniors.

didds
15-12-14, 11:12
Sorry, I disagree.

If it's tap kick, I'd be OK with the chant.

If it's a precision punt for the corner, different matter.

how do you know its DEFINITELY a precision punt to the corner, and not a ruse to LOOK like a precision punt to the corner that becomes a tap and run?

didds

crossref
15-12-14, 11:12
At PK at goal? Really?

I think it's more to put off the kicker...yes even at juniors.

for a kick at goal I would agree, and they have to be silent -- but we are specifically talking about PK NOT at goal


Anyone have an issue with a team collectively calling "Hold Hold Hold" while waiting for their opponents to take a penalty (not a kick at goal)?

menace
15-12-14, 11:12
Ooops. Don't I feel the goose. I read that as kick at goal...didn't see the 'not'. :redface::redface:

(Ps. There's no law that says they have be quiet...just stand still...but that is a tangent)

crossref
15-12-14, 11:12
(Ps. There's no law that says they have be quiet...)

I know (I just checked :) ) but still, during a kick at goal, I wouldn't let them yell.

during another sort of kick I do let them chant 'hold hold' if they want to (it's quite common)
but I wouldn't let them chant 'drop it, drop it' or 'dickhead, dickhead'. that's not rugby.

didds
15-12-14, 12:12
(removed - already responsed by CR)

Dixie
15-12-14, 20:12
So if they chanted "miss, miss,miss" would you be ok with that?


Sorry, I disagree.

If it's tap kick, I'd be OK with the chant.

If it's a precision punt for the corner, different matter. So Dickie, if you've heard it, whistled and told them not to put the guy off while he aims for the corner, if the kicker kicks to himself and passes infield to outwit the now-straggling defensive line, would you bring him back and require him to kick nicely to the corner? Of course not! Any coach worth his salt would have his boys wholly focused on the possibility that the kick to the corner may be a ruse. It would be a shame if the experienced adult ref was the only one on the park caught out by this subterfuge!

In short - no issue. Let 'em communicate with each other.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
15-12-14, 21:12
Fraggle?

Fragile?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QZHS4GNAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


NOT FRAGILE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7bQ1SI3wk)

You ain't seen nothing yet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlyhO3jHiHk

Na Madrai
16-12-14, 12:12
I am afraid that I must disagree here. At all penalties, I demand that all defending players are stationary, with their arms by their sides and silent. Why expect different stances for different penalties? Keep things nice and simple.

NM

crossref
16-12-14, 12:12
I am afraid that I must disagree here. At all penalties, I demand that all defending players are stationary, with their arms by their sides and silent. Why expect different stances for different penalties? Keep things nice and simple.

NM

why on earth should defenders be stationary?
- 1 indeed if they are not 10m back they HAVE to move
- 2 and if they are 10m back they are entitled to organise their defence...

Lee Lifeson-Peart
16-12-14, 13:12
Hold Hold Hold

Is something I have only observed/heard when teams (senior) are warming up. I think they either forget or never intend doing it when the action starts.

Similarly from my junior refereeing days teams would do it warmng up and only the more well coached (cowed by fear?) teams managed to keep it up with any degree of co-ordination for the whole game. There would always be one testicularly challenged youth who would continue screetching it long after his more baritone team-mates had lost interest.

Kick at Goal - wouldn't allow it.

Kick for touch etc - grin and bear it. Perhaps a quick "hurry up so I don't have to listen to them lot bleating" to kicker.

SimonSmith
16-12-14, 13:12
I am afraid that I must disagree here. At all penalties, I demand that all defending players are stationary, with their arms by their sides and silent. Why expect different stances for different penalties? Keep things nice and simple.

NM

So as the attackers move their players around, you don't allow the defence to track them and go with them?
Interesting.

Shelflife
16-12-14, 14:12
The whole team shouting Hold Hold Hold is merely a distracting tactic, everybody shouting it defeats the point if the leader then shouts go and the rest of the team are still shouting hold.

i dont like it, if the capt or pack leader was doing it on is own thats fine but otherwise it just looks and sounds bad and does nothing for the game.

I would ask them to stop as IMO its unsportmanslike behaviour and its very annoying.

Dixie
16-12-14, 19:12
I am afraid that I must disagree here. At all penalties, I demand that all defending players are stationary, with their arms by their sides and silent. Why expect different stances for different penalties? Keep things nice and simple.

NM

Really? The jackler who did not release is not allowed to run back 10m from where he committed the offence, and the left winger who had corner-flagged to make the original (legal) tackle is not allowed to get back to his own wing? I'll bet you're popular in the clubhouse after the game!

chbg
16-12-14, 20:12
I am afraid that I must disagree here. At all penalties, I demand that all defending players are stationary, with their arms by their sides and silent. Why expect different stances for different penalties? Keep things nice and simple.

Because the Laws only require this specifically for a kick at goal, and specifically only from the time that the kicker starts his approach to kick until the ball is kicked (21.5(c)).

andyscott
19-12-14, 08:12
Just say back another meter they wont hear you. Ping em not 10.

didds
19-12-14, 12:12
and if they do hear you, step back 1m, and carry on what then?

didds

ddjamo
19-12-14, 13:12
leggings anyone?

Phil E
19-12-14, 13:12
leggings anyone?

Hold Hold Hold my leggings ??????

manager
08-01-15, 13:01
Penalty kicks aside (and I don't think the OP meant that at all) our team uses something like this. The usual situation is when the opposition are taking a tap penalty close to our try line. They line up and chant 'Ready, Ready...' presumably in an attempt to get everyone to focus on advancing together as soon as the tap is taken. Nobody has ever commented on it.

Browner
08-01-15, 13:01
Penalty kicks aside (and I don't think the OP meant that at all) our team uses something like this. The usual situation is when the opposition are taking a tap penalty close to our try line. They line up and chant 'Ready, Ready...' presumably in an attempt to get everyone to focus on advancing together as soon as the tap is taken.

Nobody has ever commented on it.

Likely because most referees don't see it meeting any sort of "unsportsmanlike" threshhold.

Against that history, i'd keep organised(focussed) , and carry on.

manager
09-01-15, 12:01
In fact it's no different to the 'ready' chants that are heard when the scrum is waiting to shove...and nothing compared to my pet hate of players 'congratulating' the opposition on their mistakes by patting them on the back at the breakdown. Admittedly I've only seen that on the TV but I guess it's only a matter of time...