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Taffy
21-01-15, 18:01
From today. College match, under 19's. The Black number 8 is off on a yellow card. They request the opposing number 8' drops off at the next scrum so that scrum numbers are equal. I'm a bit caught but say yes. Was this right?

pwhaling
21-01-15, 18:01
Yes. U19 scrums must match.

crossref
21-01-15, 20:01
From today. College match, under 19's. The Black number 8 is off on a yellow card. They request the opposing number 8' drops off at the next scrum so that scrum numbers are equal. I'm a bit caught but say yes. Was this right?

Taffy - you really need to know these sorts of very basic Laws!

U19 and below scrums must always be equal, and must pack in specific formations. This is a safety thing, and being safety related is one of the few issues where a coach would be entitled, pretty much bound in fact, to demand you stop play immediately and fix it, making you look very silly.

Here are the u19 laws http://laws.worldrugby.org/?variation=1

this is the relevant one

20.1 Forming a scrum
(e)
In an 8 person scrum the formation must be 3-4-1, with the single player (normally the Number 8) shoving on the 2 locks. The locks must pack with their heads on either side of the hooker.
Exception: A team must have fewer than eight players in its scrum when the team cannot field eight suitably trained players in its scrum due to either the team not fielding a complete team, or a forward player being sent off or temporarily suspended for foul play, or a forward player leaving the field because of injury.
Even allowing for this exception, each team must always have at least five players in a scrum.

If a team is incomplete and it cannot field eight suitably trained players in its scrum, the scrum formation must be as follows:

If a team is without one forward player, then both teams must use a 3-4 formation (i.e. no No.8).

If a team is without two forward players, then both teams must use a 3-2-1 formation (i.e. no flankers).

If a team is without three forward players, then both teams must use a 3-2 formation (i.e. only front rows and locks).

When a normal scrum takes place, the players in the three front row positions and the two lock positions must have been suitably trained for these positions.

If a team cannot field such suitably trained players because:

either they are not available, or

a player in one of those five positions is injured or

has been sent off for Foul Play and no suitably trained replacement is available, then the referee must order uncontested scrums.

In an uncontested scrum, the teams do not compete for the ball. The team putting in the ball must win it. Neither team is allowed to push the other team away from the mark.

You also need to understand the U19 Laws on wheeling, 1.5m push which are also for safety.

TheBFG
22-01-15, 11:01
and no squeeze ball :wink:

Pegleg
22-01-15, 14:01
Taffy - you really need to know these sorts of very basic Laws!



Here are the u19 laws http://laws.worldrugby.org/?variation=1



So true. It's one thing to be unclear on interpretation and "Was I too hard or soft on them?" type questions. However, basic law knowledge is the starting point. I'm not saying read the book cover to cover like a novel. Rather, pick a law a week and study it. Know the law inside out so you have a chance!

Womble
22-01-15, 19:01
and no squeeze ball :wink:

How about leggings ? ;)

Dazzasmiff
22-01-15, 20:01
How about leggings ? ;)
No to leggings, players may only wear leggings for training but not games, u'13s upwards,
At younger ages try to encourage not to wear them in games but in exceptionally cold days allow them, new law this season if my memory serves me correct.
Women may wear tights with a single seam down the inside of the leg good luck to anyone who wants to check :biggrin:

Stuartg
22-01-15, 22:01
From today. College match, under 19's. The Black number 8 is off on a yellow card. They request the opposing number 8' drops off at the next scrum so that scrum numbers are equal. I'm a bit caught but say yes. Was this right?

Taffy

This really is something you need to know BEFORE you go on the pitch. There is no excuse for not being prepared in terms of knowledge. Get two copies of the laws and put one in the toilet. When on the throne read up the laws. Go through them again and again.

Stuartg
22-01-15, 22:01
and no squeeze ball :wink:

U19 squeezeball allowed
U18 no squeezeball

Taffy
22-01-15, 22:01
Taffy

This really is something you need to know BEFORE you go on the pitch. There is no excuse for not being prepared in terms of knowledge. Get two copies of the laws and put one in the toilet. When on the throne read up the laws. Go through them again and again.


Calm it people, calm it.................Got one in there already............

Pegleg
22-01-15, 23:01
If it is there, I, respectfully, suggest you make greater use of it.

Womble
23-01-15, 07:01
Taffy, this was covered 2 years ago when you attended my scrum presentation !

Lee Lifeson-Peart
23-01-15, 09:01
Calm it people, calm it.................Got one in there already............

And don't forget when you are in the toilet cogitating - no squeezeball!

TheBFG
23-01-15, 10:01
U19 squeezeball allowed
U18 no squeezeball

U19's must be a welsh thing, as it's normally U18's or U20's

Adam
23-01-15, 11:01
U19's must be a welsh thing, as it's normally U18's or U20's

Not in the north. Yorkshire (and NW) have U19 and U17 leagues. Because U18 players play in the U19 matches they are played to U18 variations.

U20s are reserved for County games.

Phil E
23-01-15, 11:01
No to leggings, players may only wear leggings for training but not games, u'13s upwards,
At younger ages try to encourage not to wear them in games but in exceptionally cold days allow them, new law this season if my memory serves me correct.
Women may wear tights with a single seam down the inside of the leg good luck to anyone who wants to check :biggrin:

You are not qualified to post about leggings until you have read and digested all 1,216 posts in this thread:
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?9744-Leggings&highlight=leggings
:chin: :biggrin:

Taffy
23-01-15, 11:01
Taffy, this was covered 2 years ago when you attended my scrum presentation !

Womble, all I can remember about that fateful night is a baby's dummy and a large woman's dress..............

crossref
23-01-15, 12:01
No to leggings, players may only wear leggings for training but not games, u'13s upwards,
At younger ages try to encourage not to wear them in games but in exceptionally cold days allow them, new law this season if my memory serves me correct.
Women may wear tights with a single seam down the inside of the leg good luck to anyone who wants to check :biggrin:

By the book, following all current IRB Laws and RFU regulations then you'll find that
- there is a dispensation for female players to wear tights (with certain restrictions)
- there is no dispensation allowing age grade players (or anyone else) to wear leggings
so they can't.

Of course there is then the troublesome article in Touchline magazine that said they could wea them when it was cold. ... but that was quite some time ago - 2012 wasn't it? so perhaps can be safely ignored, now.

Browner
23-01-15, 16:01
By the book, following all current IRB Laws and RFU regulations then you'll find that
- there is a dispensation for female players to wear tights (with certain restrictions)
- there is no dispensation allowing age grade players (or anyone else) to wear leggings
so they can't.

Of course there is then the troublesome article in Touchline magazine that said they could wea them when it was cold. ... but that was quite some time ago - 2012 wasn't it? so perhaps can be safely ignored, now.

Dazzasmiths noviceness is excused, but veterans aren't .... :offtopic:

Pegleg
24-01-15, 08:01
U19's must be a welsh thing, as it's normally U18's or U20's


Could be a WR (IRB thing)


"Under 19
Variations
Standard set of variations appropriate to the Under-19 Game"

Sourse WR law book 2015 edition.

didds
24-01-15, 10:01
U19's must be a welsh thing, as it's normally U18's or U20's

Its a generic thing, covering ALL age groups up to and including U19. as laid down by the IRB/WR/whatever they call themselves this week.

didds

Dixie
24-01-15, 10:01
Its a generic thing, covering ALL age groups up to and including U19. as laid down by the IRB/WR/whatever they call themselves this week.

didds

BFG was pointing out that in his experience of RFU-land, games are banded as either U.18 or U.20 with nothing in between.

ChrisR
24-01-15, 12:01
"One short in the scrum"

Is that akin to "Not playing with a full deck"?

Pegleg
24-01-15, 19:01
BFG was pointing out that in his experience of RFU-land, games are banded as either U.18 or U.20 with nothing in between.

Only Youth, in Wales is U19. The academy system is based on U16, U18 and U20. From the thread it seems England is the same. So What about other countries?

Should the WR laws relect the spilt is 18 and 20 not 19? Or are Wales and England being awkward?

didds
24-01-15, 19:01
Should the WR laws relect the spilt is 18 and 20 not 19? Or are Wales and England being awkward?


No. its not about what AGs different countries run as they chosen academy AGs. Its about those playing rugby globally aged under 19 years in whatever age group they are in.

Its quite simple really.


didds

OB..
25-01-15, 13:01
No. its not about what AGs different countries run as they chosen academy AGs. Its about those playing rugby globally aged under 19 years in whatever age group they are in.

Its quite simple really.


diddsIs it? Surely that means that if you have a U19 player in a U20 team, you have to play U19 Laws?

crossref
25-01-15, 16:01
No. its not about what AGs different countries run as they chosen academy AGs. Its about those playing rugby globally aged under 19 years in whatever age group they are in.

Its quite simple really.


diddsIs it? Surely that means that if you have a U19 player in a U20 team, you have to play U19 Laws?

Please don't ask that question (WR)

ChrisR
25-01-15, 17:01
How many players made their international debut before their 19th birthday? Titi Lamositele was one for the USA.

I don't think they went to U-19 laws.

Browner
25-01-15, 17:01
Isnt there an "elite" player override ? I think England Academy age grade players can play 'up' with consent (other than FRow)

ChrisR
25-01-15, 19:01
Yes. What makes Titi especially interesting is he plays front row. Signed with Saracens last year. Now is injured, not sure how.

Camquin
25-01-15, 21:01
Yes under 17s can play up with permission, but you have to be 18 to play in the front row.
It is all in regulation 15, and I assume this implements World Rugby regs.

Titi was born on 11 Feb 1998
His first full international was August 2013 - so he would be 18 and about 180 days.

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/player/195313.html

But I do not know where he played before that.

Camquin

ChrisR
26-01-15, 00:01
Played HS in the US and the US U-20s. Had only played 3 years.

TheBFG
26-01-15, 15:01
Sunday, my u16's have a prop binned, due to a certain European match we were more than a few players short, so no replacement. Few mins into his bin there's a scrum, Ref looks at me and says where's your prop, I shrug my shoulders and point to the one stood next to me! "you'll have to go uncontested sir" :wink: says I. So they do, at which point I shout to my capt, "make sure they drop a player too Miles" "Oh and make sure they don't play with a No8", the ref turns round and says, "excuse me coach i'll ref this game".

"Sorry sir, just making sure my team know what's going on, it's not happened to us before (which is true)" he just turns and puts his finger to his lips. Fair enough thinks I.

Next scrum, our put in, our 8 goes in the 8 channel picks up from the base and scores, I just stood there looked at the ref and smiled. You just can't help some people :wink: