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RugbyDoc
20-04-15, 23:04
U14 NLD game stopped whilst a coach came and told the ref that one of the opposing team players should be sent off for a tackle on his son. Both ref and TJ saw no problem with tackle but coach continued whilst spectators wondered what was going on.Lasted over 10 mins! This really should not be appropriate, and you can see a soccer mentality beginning to take hold

crossref
20-04-15, 23:04
That's bad. I hope someone reported this incident to the coach's club, or to the CB

didds
21-04-15, 00:04
Or both

didds

Chris_j
21-04-15, 00:04
^this, report it to ensure such behaviour is challenged! Otherwise the soccer mentality may gain inroads to the game.

leaguerefaus
21-04-15, 03:04
I've noticed there's quite a few posts on here about coaches entering the field of play and talking / complaining to refs. Can anyone shed some light on why it happens in your code but is (as far as I'm aware) completely unheard of in RL here. If a coach entered the field of play he'd be promptly sent from the ground.

I just find it strange that it happens in your code when you guys have the high ground on dissent and respect.

menace
21-04-15, 05:04
I've noticed there's quite a few posts on here about coaches entering the field of play and talking / complaining to refs. Can anyone shed some light on why it happens in your code but is (as far as I'm aware) completely unheard of in RL here. If a coach entered the field of play he'd be promptly sent from the ground.

I just find it strange that it happens in your code when you guys have the high ground on dissent and respect.

Because they're usually RL trying their hand at rugby coaching! :pepper:

Your comment did make me choke on my lunch. What I see here is the RL coach not enter the field very often but rather yell more abuse from the sideline. I have however seen RL coaches after the game enter the field to see the ref and give him his precise thoughts on some decisions. These are not sent packing off the ground? I have also seen coaches have a crack at the ref at half time while they're walking out to their team.

I think you'll find that it is very rare that a rugby coach would enter the field at any time to remonstrate with the ref ...but it does happen on occaission when a coach can't keep his emotions in check. I would bet the same happens in RL on occaission too you just don't always hear about it.

Dickie E
21-04-15, 05:04
if a concerned parent steps in to protect his/her child even if stepping in is against the "rules" - I can see where they're coming from.

May be why the Catholic Church has got away with their shenanigans for so long.

Just saying ...

TigerCraig
21-04-15, 06:04
Had a funny one in my sons (Under 18's) game on Sunday

There was a coach/assistant coach/guy in a polo shirt with a clipboard running up and down the field, but behind the spectator rope yelling for every possible infringement. Then there was some definite hands in the ruck by one of my sons teammates. Just as mr polo shirt started screaming, the referee blew his whistle for the penalty.

My son's teammate looked across to mr polo shirt and said quite loudly, but surprisingly politely for a 17 year old "mate, the real ref got me, keep your mouth shut and mind your own business", then a "sorry sir" as he trotted back 10. Much smiling and laughter from all, except from mr polo shirt who looked sheepish and kept quiet from then on.

menace
21-04-15, 06:04
if a concerned parent steps in to protect his/her child even if stepping in is against the "rules" - I can see where they're coming from.

May be why the Catholic Church has got away with their shenanigans for so long.

Just saying ...

You just had to bring religion into it!

Ian_Cook
21-04-15, 07:04
I've noticed there's quite a few posts on here about coaches entering the field of play and talking / complaining to refs. Can anyone shed some light on why it happens in your code but is (as far as I'm aware) completely unheard of in RL here. If a coach entered the field of play he'd be promptly sent from the ground.

I just find it strange that it happens in your code when you guys have the high ground on dissent and respect.


At this level and in this situation, you should remember to read "coach" as "over-expectant, under-achieving loud-mouthed parent"

You don't generally find this kind of disrespect for referees from coaches anywhere above age grades (unless the coach's nickname is "Cockers", for which you should read simply as "foul-mouthed asshat"

crossref
21-04-15, 07:04
I've noticed there's quite a few posts on here about coaches entering the field of play and talking / complaining to refs. Can anyone shed some light on why it happens in your code but is (as far as I'm aware) completely unheard of in RL here. If a coach entered the field of play he'd be promptly sent from the ground.

I just find it strange that it happens in your code when you guys have the high ground on dissent and respect.

I can't recall ever seeing a coach come on to the field to complain.
Yelling from sidelines.... Yes all the time. .
Coming on to pitch to yell... Rare I think

leaguerefaus
21-04-15, 10:04
At this level and in this situation, you should remember to read "coach" as "over-expectant, under-achieving loud-mouthed parent"
Believe me, Ian, I certainly have had the displeasure of reffing teams with coaches like that!

leaguerefaus
21-04-15, 10:04
I can't recall ever seeing a coach come on to the field to complain.
Yelling from sidelines.... Yes all the time. .
Coming on to pitch to yell... Rare I think
I'd hope it's very rare. I wasn't trying to say it's a regular occurrence, it's just I've seen a few more posts on here about it - more than I expected.

I couldn't think of anything weirder and more out of order than a coach entering the field to complain while the game is on.

OB..
21-04-15, 12:04
I can't recall ever seeing a coach come on to the field to complain.
Yelling from sidelines.... Yes all the time. .
Coming on to pitch to yell... Rare I thinkDitto.

Ronald
21-04-15, 12:04
I've had this only once in my reffing career...think in my second year. Coach stormed onto the field, shouting about something. I politely asked him to leave, he wouldn't and received a red card for his efforts. He didn't want to leave, but I told him until he has left the playing enclosure, no game. He left and the game continued, with his team winning!
I walked of the field to the school's principal and reported it, also forwarded a written report to the school and the union. The result was that the coach was banned for the rest of the season, and I got a reputation for being a ref who doesn't take nonsense...has served me well!:biggrin:

Daftmedic
21-04-15, 12:04
Unfortunately we have a coach of a team that's just been promoted. Who cannot accept that his team was not good enough to win the double. IT remonstrated blaming everything on our team of four.

oldman
21-04-15, 13:04
When I read this threads title I thought it refereed to the RFU's closing of the referee department and it becoming part of 'Game development". I understand the referee input in courses etc has dropped to nil.

Browner
21-04-15, 15:04
U14 NLD game stopped whilst a coach came and told the ref that one of the opposing team players should be sent off for a tackle on his son. Both ref and TJ saw no problem with tackle but coach continued whilst spectators wondered what was going on.Lasted over 10 mins! This really should not be appropriate, and you can see a soccer mentality beginning to take hold

1) if this was a TJ was from one of the teams ( as opposed to a society appointed AR) then his assessment isn't 'active'

2) The referee should insist that the Coach leaves the field, and if he turned his back on the coach & jogged off and recommenced the game then the coach would either
a) leave the field muttering ...or
b) put himself in a very bad place if he chased after the referee.

However, if the coach really thought ( & it wasnt merely winning the fixture that prompted his demands for a RC) that the referee wasn't recognising the seriousness of say a serious "lifting/driving" tackles , then the coach can remove his team from the fixture on 'child safety' grounds.
I'm merely 'hypothesising' but it could be that the coach was putting that strong case forward??? - & if im guessing correctly then how else can he do it? After the next serious injury is too late ! What other mechanism exists for such a safety fork in that particular continuation of match?

I've seen club 'amateur' referees get that subject badly wrong, although never at CB appointed fixtures, that I'll grant you.

Only by reporting will it be addressed. Paperwork is the referees investment in the future !!! it is the only way to head back to the very thinnest of ends of the abuse wedge.


On a side issue, I'd like to see assessors (or CB/ref society watchers ) be encouraged/mandated to report [say psuedo 'mystery shopper'] on touchline abuse.
Assessors report to read something like....
PKs awarded 14
Offending Player # identified 75%
Law errors 2
Positioning 8/10
Communication 9/10
Game management 7/10
Coach/manager shouting at officials 138
Players respect toward decisions made 4/10
Spectator respect toward officials. 2/10
Home club 'proactive & visible' curtailment of the loud mouth ranters. 0/10
Home Club hospitality toward/engagement with officials 2/10

In short, assess the 'ethos & spirit" of participant teams as well as the whistle.

Then action might happen, & recruitment/retention for this damn complicated refereeing might be more attractive thereafter.

Post match the focus is always on referees ( same as football pundit cheap shots...booooooo) to be brutally frank its getting close to tipping my balance in favour of doing something much more rewarding with my time.

I may start another thread .....

TheBFG
21-04-15, 16:04
Funny you should bring that up, my assessor from Saturday has said he will (going forward) refuse to assess any ref where one of the teams from my match is playing :wow: In my game on Saturday and at previous matches he's had a constant barrage of what starts out as "banter" become abuse as the game and alcohol in take goes on!

tim White
21-04-15, 19:04
Funny you should bring that up, my assessor from Saturday has said he will (going forward) refuse to assess any ref where one of the teams from my match is playing :wow: In my game on Saturday and at previous matches he's had a constant barrage of what starts out as "banter" become abuse as the game and alcohol in take goes on!

I too am starting to find this, particularly from coaches who want to tell me what to write in my report and what grade the ref should be; often the losing coach, never the winning one?????

As I understand it if the assessor is 'appointed' to the game he becomes a 'match official' and can report serious abuse exactly as any referee would.:mad:

matty1194
21-04-15, 20:04
I've noticed there's quite a few posts on here about coaches entering the field of play and talking / complaining to refs.
I just find it strange that it happens in your code when you guys have the high ground on dissent and respect.

I think and I may be proven wrong but in my experience it is personality driven as regards the referee and the way he deals with certain situations, if you have a new younger more inexperienced official with little life experience he may well react differently to the 45+ year old referee who has been around since 4 point tries and who manages 10+ people in his day to day working life.

Some people are not used to conflict, I have served 16 years in the Army this year and due to work commitments have on occasion had to go direct to grounds from work still wearing my uniform. Delivering pre match briefs whilst still in uniform I find that very little dissent is heard throughout the game........................:shrug: lol :wink::wink:


Staring down a suicide bomber means I am well capable of dealing with over exuberant coaches and players.




Funny you should bring that up, my assessor from Saturday has said he will (going forward) refuse to assess any ref where one of the teams from my match is playing :wow: In my game on Saturday and at previous matches he's had a constant barrage of what starts out as "banter" become abuse as the game and alcohol in take goes on!

My coach this season, Tony, has found himself in the similar situation a number of times, and has found cause to speak to members of the Committee to get it sorted out short shift on the threat of a complaint into the Union, he has only had to follow that threat up once this season caused by non regular supporters getting a wee bit too boisterous pitch side after a few too many beers.

Daftmedic
22-04-15, 09:04
Some people are not used to conflict, I have served 16 years in the Army this year and due to work commitments have on occasion had to go direct to grounds from work still wearing my uniform. Delivering pre match briefs whilst still in uniform I find that very little dissent is heard throughout the game........................:shrug: lol.

A cunnig plan Baldrick.
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l541/daftmedic/2013-07/3494DB6F-9886-4485-AB22-6864E7C23C2D.jpg (http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/daftmedic/media/2013-07/3494DB6F-9886-4485-AB22-6864E7C23C2D.jpg.html)

RugbyDoc
22-04-15, 10:04
Thanks for all your comments. This was an NLD final with ref and TJ's from society and I'd guess average age of them to be early fifties ( or they could just been having a bad day). I hope the ref reported it , but I've done it as well as unless this is discouraged then it'll become a common problem

crossref
22-04-15, 10:04
Thanks for all your comments. This was an NLD final with ref and TJ's from society and I'd guess average age of them to be early fifties ( or they could just been having a bad day).

harrumph - what on earth is wrong with being in your early fifties?

Browner
22-04-15, 17:04
Thanks for all your comments.

This was an NLD final with ref and TJ's from society and I'd guess average age of them to be early fifties ( or they could just been having a bad day).

I hope the ref reported it , but I've done it as well as unless this is discouraged then it'll become a common problem

If i read correct(?)
You're alluding that their age made them poor judges, "au contraire mon ami" perhaps instead they are jammed packed with rugby experience & have forgotten more about this sport than some of their critics have likely 'yet' amassed.:knuppel2:

Good, well done. Specifically who did you report it to? (& was this written or verbal etc...?)
the more that 'interested observers" ( my best guess is that you had a vested interest in this U14 cup final fixture, and this was an opponent coach ....please confirm ?? ) take issue with spectator poor behaviour on the touchline, then the better this sport will stay.
I presume you also referee RugbyDoc???
(Nothing more than curiousity on my part, given your very few postings on here over the last 4 years) & if not, ever thought of doing so?

Browner
22-04-15, 17:04
. A cunnig plan Baldrick.


Do you struggle with "cunning linguistics" :chin:. But being fair, it can be a tongue twister for some :biggrin:

Dixie
22-04-15, 20:04
Do you struggle with "cunning linguistics" :chin:. But being fair, it can be a tongue twister for some :biggrin: A similar word caught out John Inverdale !

RugbyDoc
22-04-15, 21:04
Actually, I too am in my mid fifties and recently got half a new knee. Found it hard to keep up with the pace . However, I did have a few tips from Twiggy on how to ref from a distance!

RugbyDoc
22-04-15, 21:04
Oh and NLD replied that the coach was on the pitch assisting the ref with an injury . Strange as ref who had twisted his ankle went off 10 mins before and a new ref was on at the time.

Ian_Cook
22-04-15, 22:04
Actually, I too am in my mid fifties and recently got half a new knee. Found it hard to keep up with the pace . However, I did have a few tips from Twiggy on how to ref from a distance!

I think some here were a bit quick to dogpile judgement upon you then :pepper: However, since you are in your mid-fifties and the referees you talked about are in their early fifties, you'll just have to make it your job to get these young inexperienced guys up to scratch!

Those young bucks, eh.? They think they know it all!! :biggrin:


I'll be 60 later this year

ChrisR
22-04-15, 22:04
..... may well react differently to the 45+ year old referee who has been around since 4 point tries ....

What? 4 points for a try? Since when? Hrmph! Nobody tells me anything!

Owen Bisto Taylor
22-04-15, 23:04
Don't seem to get much back chat being 6ft+ and northern around these parts! Unless you're refereeing Daventry of course :hap:

Daftmedic
23-04-15, 19:04
I'm from the correct side of the Pennines. And 6ft. Just this one Welsh coach.

Browner
23-04-15, 19:04
Oh and NLD replied that the coach was on the pitch assisting the ref with an injury . Strange as ref who had twisted his ankle went off 10 mins before and a new ref was on at the time.

Sounds like 'they' ( whoever they are) didn't share your concerns.