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Marko
08-09-15, 08:09
OK, so here is my latest area for coach disagreement...

The FP laws specifically prevents players from running before the pass is made, presumable for safety reasons to prevent the "crash ball" (7b)

There is no such exclusion from the section about Free Kicks; so in theory a player could place the ball on the ground, get a whole load of big players running towards him at full pace and tap it as they get to him - specifically what 7b was presumably designed to avoid.

In the spirit of the laws, should this be disallowed?

crossref
08-09-15, 08:09
I think you can rely on the adult Laws here


10.4 (p) Flying Wedge and Cavalry Charge. A team must not use the ‘Flying Wedge’ or the ‘Cavalry Charge’.
Sanction: Penalty kick at the place of the original infringement.

‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.
Sanction: Penalty kick at the place of the original infringement.

‘Cavalry Charge’. The type of attack known as as a 'Cavalry Charge' usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick. Either a single player stands some distance behind the kicker, or attacking players form a line across the field some distance behind the kicker.
These attacking players are usually a metre or two apart. At a signal from the kicker, they charge forward. When they get near, the kicker tap-kicks the ball and passes to a player who had started some distance behind the kicker.
Sanction: Penalty kick at the place of infringement

didds
08-09-15, 09:09
yup.

Years ago there used to be a chap - Paul Dixon? Can;'t recall his bame properly now - that acted as a sort of accepted go between for club copntinuum coaches and the rfu's AG regs departjment... he woud hang out in forums and pass on legitimate queries. paul moved on and that link has disappeared - so AG coachesd are left second guessing what is meant. The NRoP/nee AG regs/ nee continuum is less legally tight than the full laws and oftebn we just have to work out what is meant.

I think it wold be fair and reasonable to suggest that in this regard a FK is the same as FP, especially in the light of the full laws as suggested by CR above.

didds

- - - Updated - - -

I will accep-t however, that yes, somebody somewhere out there will be reffing along the strict letter of the law - notwirthstanding CR's excellent point.

didds

Marko
08-09-15, 15:09
Thanks - that is certainly how I will interpret, and as for all these things will discuss with opposition coaches/refs in advance

Next question concerns the rules about "deliberately falling over". I am quite happy with the idea of supporting players needing to stay on their feet, but where would we stand with a ball carrier going into a tackle, then when his support is with him, deliberately going to ground and presenting the ball to his team. Surely this is an important part of the adult game.

didds
08-09-15, 16:09
do you have the full reg 15 wording for that marko?

didds

Marko
08-09-15, 18:09
14 d
No player shall fall on or over a player lying on the ground with the ball in their possession or fall on or over players lying on the ground with the ball between them, or near them.

Note to referee: No advantage shall be played:

A player is assumed to have fallen voluntarily unless the referee is absolutely certain the fall was accidental.

In the very rare instances when the fall is accidental, play must be stopped and a scrum awarded to the team previously in possession.The object is to keep players on their feet and to prevent them from falling to the ground, thus removing a dangerous area of play. This will create proper rucks and mauls through encouraging players to remain on their feet.


OK - reading it through very carefully, I think that the emphasis is on people not falling over once the ball is on the ground, so a ball carrier going to ground is OK. Again, taking a lead from the senior game it must be right to allow it.

crossref
08-09-15, 18:09
Ah, as I understand this - it is NOT prohibiting a ball carrier from going to ground, it is prohibiting a player from falling on top of another player who is already on the ground. (ie falling on a ball carrier or a would-be ball carrier on the ground)

Falling on top of a ball carrier is also illegal in the adult game, of course.

Marko
08-09-15, 19:09
Yes, that is the way I read it as well
Thanks