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Lee Lifeson-Peart
09-05-16, 18:05
I refereed at an U14s 7s tournament at the weekend and one of the competing clubs (who had brought 2x teams in their brand spanking 7s kit) refused to play as they felt the ground was too hard. They raised it at the coaches/refs meeting saying they weren't happy with pitch 2 (usually the training pitch and a bit less grassy between the 22s. The running order was switched so all the games were on pitch 1 then they decided that was too hard too.

They left.

Thankfully we refs were not dragged into it.

Tournament went off without a hitch and there were no injuries caused by the state of the pitch that I saw. I did 7 games of 10 minutes each.(10 minute games to make sure boys only played an hour max)

Enjoyable day - though a bit hot.

Charity event to raise money for the Yorkshire Air Ambulance which needs 12,000 a DAY:wow: to keep 2no helicopters in the air.

L'irlandais
10-05-16, 07:05
Best to avoid this sort of thing (http://www.reidcooper.co.uk/rugby-pitch-fit/). Lawyers are good at making it somebody's fault, blame culture is their bread and butter. Although the case refers to the ground being frozen solid in places, the same would apply in Summer, if the surface was too hard to take a stud.

- - - Updated - - -:shrug:

Lee Lifeson-Peart
10-05-16, 10:05
Too hard to "take a stud" is an interesting one although I personally think too hard in Winter is not the same as too hard in Summer (ooooerr missus) . That said I'm still glad we didn't get dragged into the discussion.

As an organiser I would be concerned ('til the tournament had finished) if a team/teams had refused to play on the grounds the pitch(es) was too hard ie unsafe and a member of another team who had agreed to play had an accident.

In Sunday's case it was common knowledge amongst all watching that a club had withdrawn their teams over concerns about the pitch(es). It was the team who had travelled furthest which withdrew.

As you say blame culture is bread an butter to parts of the legal profession.

didds
10-05-16, 10:05
I've often wondered what the difference is between a frozen pitch eg where you cannot dig a heel in) and a baked hard pitch (ditto).


There are certainly safety issues to consider for scrummaging if front rows in particular cannot gain a purchase on baked ground.

didds

Staffs_Ref
10-05-16, 10:05
I've often wondered what the difference is between a frozen pitch eg where you cannot dig a heel in) and a baked hard pitch (ditto).


There are certainly safety issues to consider for scrummaging if front rows in particular cannot gain a purchase on baked ground.

didds
The key difference is that you tend to get "dagger-like" pieces of frozen mud protruding from the ground when it is frozen.

BigClothesSir
10-05-16, 12:05
So what happens in countries like Namibia?

Try or no try, fellas?

http://i64.tinypic.com/2gv0t4g.jpg

4eyesbetter
10-05-16, 22:05
For mine, the difference between a frozen pitch and a baked pitch is that a baked pitch, such as I see through most of my season, has a covering of grass on top that short moulded studs or pimples can grip. Frozen grass does not offer any purchase to anything less aggressive than an ice-pick.

(Of course, I don't have to worry about powerful scrums.)

Dickie E
11-05-16, 00:05
main issue we have here is turf cricket pitches in the middle of the ground. They get wet and chewed up by studs then dry out and become hard & spiky.

leaguerefaus
11-05-16, 00:05
Hmm. Was the ground too hard or was the team too soft...

Lee Lifeson-Peart
11-05-16, 14:05
Hmm. Was the ground too hard or was the team too soft...

They were U14 and their coaches withdrew them.

They were from Nottinghamshire though. :biggrin:

Taff
12-05-16, 01:05
I've often wondered what the difference is between a frozen pitch eg where you cannot dig a heel in) and a baked hard pitch (ditto). There are certainly safety issues to consider for scrummaging if front rows in particular cannot gain a purchase on baked ground.
I always assumed that bones were far more brittle and easier to break in sub zero temperatures.

didds
12-05-16, 09:05
Maybe if they've been frozen for weeks on end ?

didds

L'irlandais
12-05-16, 09:05
I always assumed that bones were far more brittle and easier to break in sub zero temperatures.The bones are at body temperature as 37C (98.6F). For the bone to be at subzero temperatures the patient would have severe frostbite.

Perhaps sub zero temperatures reducing blood circulation to the extremities creates a greater likelihood of fracture, since the skeleton needs muscles to function properly. In the linked article the ball carrier's fracture was due to a sidestep gone wrong. The court of law blamed the frosty surface. A good defense lawyer might have shown that the ball carrier was negligent by playing on while aware his performance must be reduced by cold limbs.

- - - Updated - - -it was crazy of him to attempt a sidestep when his toes were numb, your Honour!

davidgh
16-05-16, 09:05
The real issue here is more brains than bones.

Illustrated vividly at a festival in Surrey in October after a hot summer.

A friends child u12 in my care was flying down the wing and was flattened by the oppo. his head hit the ground and he fitted severely. Gladly a friendly home coach knew where to find a senior doctor. He told me to get the kid to hospital very fast. So I did, gladly A&E was 10 mins down the A3, the parents joined me there 30 mins later. Following lots of tests and an overnight stay nothing came of it.

BUT, the warnings I got about the potential consequences were quite blood curdling. Brain damage. etc.

Less worried about liability and more worried about permanent disablement of our charges.

didds
16-05-16, 09:05
In the worrds of a paramedic chum in the LAS..



I'd suggest that's nonsense
You body is expert at thermoregulating
You have warm blood, warm bone marrow - bones don't, to my knowledge become unstable strength wise when they are cold

Of course extreme temps - say -50 degrees + might have an effect but in not sure. Certainly not playing on a frozen pitch I don't think so /-)