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L'irlandais
06-07-16, 11:07
Pinched from Robbie's Twitter :

Victor Vito goes undercover to expose poor sideline behaviour.
Worth a watch Source : New Zealand Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11668532)

FlipFlop
06-07-16, 12:07
I saw that the other day. Wish that had shown the players taking on the parents for their bad behaviour. Getting the parents to try to justify it etc. Kind of missed out the major message.

L'irlandais
06-07-16, 15:07
Yes, only it might leave them open to legal action.

I think the boys' heroes saying publicly (even off camera) that the behavior of certain parents was not okay, may well influence future behaviour, at that club. Each club could do similar, when an Elite squad visits. No disguise, simply saying in front of all present such swearing on the sideline is unwelcome. Makes it clear not just to the hotheaded parent, but more importantly to the U13s, they are the future of the Game.

crossref
06-07-16, 15:07
It's the people who manage the clubs - the blazers, as we call them - who have the power to control the culture and behaviour at their club. A referee or an All-Black may be able to confront one or two individuals, but that won't change anything really

In my experience the age groups with abusive parents, are the age groups with an abusive coach, and the clubs with abusive coaches are the clubs with abusive DoR, and the clubs with abusive DoR are the clubs with abusive blazers. ...

L'irlandais
06-07-16, 17:07
Sure, it's the Blazers who set the tone for the club.
But even in a good structure, you can find a parent/coach who is over the top.

New Milton did a Rugby First Pilot scheme (https://youtu.be/U813ujHU-fg) a couple of seasons ago.
I wonder how that turned out? Anybody for Hampshire on the forums?
Is there now a more relaxed atmosphere on the sidelines in the New Forest?

Love the outtake at the end of the clip :
Question from Dr. P. Peters-Cheale : "So what kind of roles do you want parents to play?"
Answer by Giles (New Milton RFC ). Deep sigh, "Oh God yeah.!"

crossref
06-07-16, 19:07
Sure, it's the Blazers who set the tone for the club.
But even in a good structure, you can find a parent/coach who is over the top.


of course, but in a good structure repeated bad behaviour is called out.

L'irlandais
06-07-16, 21:07
The problem is of course more widespread than the mini/midi/maxi game.

I am not convinced that the malfaiteurs are always called to heel. Anybody who has followed the Women's U20 Sevens game, will know that the Russian squad say their coach Pavel Baranovsky is passionate about the game. (https://youtu.be/Omdiyox5Dqg). Quiet enough when things are going his way. Yet roaring audibly from the sideline during this second half, that and his half time team pep talks are way too aggressive, for my liking.

Shelflife
07-07-16, 18:07
I thought I read somewhere that some of the abusive parents were actors as well which takes away from the whole point of the clips, yes someone should have told the actor to calm down and quieten down but they didnt.

My son took up reffing last year and I went to a number of his games, I would be very quick now to report any abuse from the sideline either coaches or "fans". They wouldnt tolerate anyone abusing their son (a player) so why should we tolerate our sons/daughters being abused.

Its funny that when I confronted an abuser a few years ago and asked him to identify himself he wasnt half as vocal as he was during the game.

L'irlandais
07-07-16, 22:07
If it was completely staged then I agree the whole message is diluted.

Although encompassing all sports this page from the NSPCC Child Protection in Sport Unit (https://thecpsu.org.uk/help-advice/topics/parents-in-sport/) has a clear message.

crossref
07-07-16, 22:07
it would be much more effective to simply turn up on the sidelines and call out bad behaviour.
you don't need to pretend to be a ref.

Dickie E
07-07-16, 22:07
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/81762284/Actors-used-in-Victor-Vitos-undercover-expose-of-rugby-referee-abuse

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/irate-parents-featured-in-undercover-victor-vito-spectator-abuse-video-making-formal-complaint-union


Absolutely disgraceful by Wellington RU

and look at this bullshit from Vito:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/quite-tough-keep-my-composure-all-black-victor-vito-appalled-sideline-behaviour.html

SimonSmith
08-07-16, 00:07
it would be much more effective to simply turn up on the sidelines and call out bad behaviour.
you don't need to pretend to be a ref.

I don't have to. When I delicately asked someone to stop sledging the referee, he did enquire as to "who the **** are you?"
His team mates who knew me starting running at a panicky clip and arrived as the words "I'm the local ****ing Discipline Chair. Can I ask you to stop the verbals?"

Ushered away in silence.

The change HAS to come from within the club. There are some over here who are a joy. Pleasant people who take their rugby seriously but not too seriously. Others, you have to gird your loins as you arrive...

Dickie E
08-07-16, 01:07
Far be it for me to condone referee abuse but if the ref is poorly dressed, is so unfit he can't keep up with play, has the people skills of a jobsworth, doesn't know the laws, manhandles the players and/or cheats, then he needs to be called out.

4eyesbetter
08-07-16, 04:07
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/81762284/Actors-used-in-Victor-Vitos-undercover-expose-of-rugby-referee-abuse

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/irate-parents-featured-in-undercover-victor-vito-spectator-abuse-video-making-formal-complaint-union


Absolutely disgraceful by Wellington RU

and look at this bullshit from Vito:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/quite-tough-keep-my-composure-all-black-victor-vito-appalled-sideline-behaviour.html

How are they supposed to have any moral authority when they need to be fundamentally dishonest to make their point?

crossref
08-07-16, 08:07
Far be it for me to condone referee abuse but if the ref is poorly dressed, is so unfit he can't keep up with play, has the people skills of a jobsworth, doesn't know the laws, manhandles the players and/or cheats, then he needs to be called out.

It's not just directed at the refs, some spectators direct absolutely unforgivable abuse at players, TJs and coaches.
Often it's even directed at players on their own team. Sometimes their own sons. Its the same people who abuse the refs

L'irlandais
08-07-16, 08:07
I agree, some of the worst offenders can be parents would are involved quite a bit in their club, coaching son's team or whatever. Where winning at all cost, clouds their mind and allows them to say unforgivable stuff.
It's our game, not yours'
This on-line video shows several children involved in different sports (including Rugby League, Netball, Swimming and Table Tennis.) describing how the behaviour of parents and spectators deteriorates when they wear their ‘magic sports kit’ – that is, when they compete.
The young people talk about a range of bad adult behaviours and how these negatively affect them. They then describe and promote positive behaviour.

Source : cpsu (https://thecpsu.org.uk/resource-library/2013/my-magic-sports-kit/)

Dickie E
08-07-16, 08:07
It's not just directed at the refs, some spectators direct absolutely unforgivable abuse at players, TJs and coaches.
Often it's even directed at players on their own team. Sometimes their own sons. Its the same people who abuse the refs

I disgaree. In my experience most abuse is directed at officials

OB..
08-07-16, 12:07
Far be it for me to condone referee abuse but if the ref is poorly dressed, is so unfit he can't keep up with play, has the people skills of a jobsworth, doesn't know the laws, manhandles the players and/or cheats, then he needs to be called out.
Do you see many referees who fit parts of that catalogue? I don't.

DocY
08-07-16, 13:07
I disgaree. In my experience most abuse is directed at officials

IME, the officials do get more abuse than others. We seem to be first in line - if someone's being abusive to the players, you can guarantee they're being just as abusive (and often more so) towards the referee. And there are far more people being abusive to the ref and not the players.

DocY
08-07-16, 13:07
Do you see many referees who fit parts of that catalogue? I don't.

You've not seen me ref, have you? ;)

Such people do need to be called out, yes, but that's why we have assessors. If we leave the 'calling out' up to the spectators, such guys will just quit - which they might consider a victory until they don't have a referee at all the week after.

dave_clark
08-07-16, 20:07
Do you see many referees who fit parts of that catalogue? I don't.

there are plenty at the younger youth age groups. at least there were when the team i coached were those age groups (no smart arse comment please) - club refs who had the primary goal of ensuring that their team won. far from the norm, but not unheard of.

i do not include society refs in the above.

Dickie E
08-07-16, 22:07
Do you see many referees who fit parts of that catalogue? I don't.

Fortunately no but then again I don't see much abuse from the touchline.

Anecdotally I suspect that there is a correlation between poor onfield officiating and impotent spectator frustration which can lead to verbals.

DocY
08-07-16, 23:07
Fortunately no but then again I don't see much abuse from the touchline.

Anecdotally I suspect that there is a correlation between poor onfield officiating and impotent spectator frustration which can lead to verbals.

I think you're right there. The worse instances of abuse I've seen have been when the ref is having a poor game. I'm not sure which comes first though - I'm sure some referees would lose confidence if they heard abuse coming from the sidelines, and so go on to have a poor game.

L'irlandais
09-07-16, 09:07
I think we are pretty much in agreement, referee abuse is not widespread in the game of rugby, especially where a decent structure is in place. I think some of you are missing the point though, even when the club has a good structure verbal abuse of mini/midi\maxi kids is rife in every country on this planet.

No smoke without fire ; countries don't organize National campaigns to deal with non-problems.

Dickie E
09-07-16, 10:07
I think some of you are missing the point though, even when the club has a good structure verbal abuse of mini/midi\maxi kids is rife in every country on this planet.



How do you say balderdash in French?

didds
09-07-16, 11:07
I think you're right there. The worse instances of abuse I've seen have been when the ref is having a poor game. I'm not sure which comes first though - I'm sure some referees would lose confidence if they heard abuse coming from the sidelines, and so go on to have a poor game.

yep... I perceive there is a demographic that expect their games' ref to be poor, and they then find that (s)he is "as expected".

didds

didds
09-07-16, 11:07
How do you say balderdash in French?

Le dash de bald

didds

OB..
09-07-16, 12:07
How do you say balderdash in French?
absurdité, sottises, balivernes, inepties, idioties, fadaises, balivernes, bętises, niaiseries, fariboles
(Google Translate is your friend)

crossref
02-08-16, 06:08
more from NZ -- 25% of refs resigning, police to attend youth games

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/02/abuse-new-zealand-club-policeman-childrens-matches-sport

didds
02-08-16, 08:08
anybody here closer to that story than a newspaper based in London/Manchester? That's no to decry the grauniad, but the story smacks of something else if it is so limited to Northland, or even just Whangerai itself. No other areas/town in NZ have been fingered as havbing an issue in that article?

didds