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View Full Version : [Line out] RFU Under 14 & Under 15 NRoP: Line out



chbg
20-09-16, 11:09
2 questions:

1. What is an 'Uncontested Lineout'? More specifically, when is the opposition allowed to re-start the contest?

2. Under 15 only: is lifting and supporting only permitted for the throwing in side (as there is 'no contest' for the ball)? (Not that I can any tactical point in the other side lifting, other than for practice.)

Discussion last night amongst referees more accustomed to adult and U18 matches came to the conclusion that the contest resumed when the throwing-in side gained possession of the ball in the LO, i.e. the oposition could then form a maul on the line of touch. And that only the throwing-in Under 15 side should lift and support.

However we all know that the throwing-in side in an uncontested scrum "must win" the ball and we do not allow e.g. the opposition SH to challenge for the ball as it comes out.

So how are these areas regularly refereed (to inform Society referees appointed to the occasional U15 cup match)?

TheBFG
20-09-16, 12:09
i'll be interested in the outcome of this thread, got an u15's cup match next month. Last year it ended up in a mass brawl with a coach reported to the police for assault :knuppel2:

Phil E
20-09-16, 13:09
Discussed this at work with Community department.

Consensus seems to be the lineout is uncontested in the air, so throwing side must win, but once the ball is back on the ground we are back to normal, so a contested maul can take place.

The non winning side can still put someone up because they need to practise this, but can't contest for the ball (so may not bother).

Dan_A
20-09-16, 14:09
Went to watch my u15 son's first school match a couple of weeks back. At half time the referee (a teacher form the opposition school) came over to our son's coach to check on lineout interpretation. Specifically, if the throwing in team doesn't jump what happens. We all kind if agreed that since safety is clearly the over-riding consideration, he should be specifically pinging competing in the air in any way. BUT, either after a lift or in the circumstance of no lift, when the receiver is on the ground with the ball it's game on!

Also, and this is some kind of miracle, both my u15 and u12 son's are now playing the SAME rules in school games on Saturday as they do club games on Sunday..... hallelujah!!!

crossref
20-09-16, 14:09
if the throwing team miss catching the ball altogether and the ball arrives at the back of the lineout, can a player from the non-throwing team catch it? can he jump to catch it?

Dan_A
20-09-16, 15:09
In an uncontested scrum, if the scrum half fed the ball to the opposition would you make him do it again??

My vote would be that we don't reward errors in execution with another bite at the cherry. If an opposition player can catch the throw unopposed, them to me they have not "competed" in any sense.

crossref
20-09-16, 15:09
In an uncontested scrum, if the scrum half fed the ball to the opposition would you make him do it again??


I would actually!
More likely is that the hooker accidentally kicks it into the opposing scrum and then, yes, start again.

Phil E
20-09-16, 17:09
In an uncontested scrum the putting in team MUST win the ball. i.e. get it to the back of their scrum.

I would suggest the same applies to the uncontested lineout. The throwing team MUST win the lineout. Once they have the ball in their possession its game on.

So in Dan's scenario I would reset the lineout.

crossref
20-09-16, 17:09
Also, and this is some kind of miracle, both my u15 and u12 son's are now playing the SAME rules in school games on Saturday as they do club games on Sunday..... hallelujah!!!

this is a real achievement, and hats off for the RFU for making that happen, finally.

OB..
20-09-16, 22:09
this is a real achievement, and hats off for the RFU for making that happen, finally.Agreed - and just in time for my grandson to start at U12.

AntonyGoodman
20-09-16, 23:09
See attached for the U14 and U15 line out FAQ.

3464

Thanks,

Antony

chbg
21-09-16, 00:09
See attached for the U14 and U15 line out FAQ.

3464

Thanks,

Antony

A brilliant link, thank you very much.

However ....

When can the non-throwing team contest possession?
The contest for possession can start once the player who catches the ball has safely returned to the ground. The non-throwing team cannot contest possession whilst the ball is in the air.

Can a maul be formed from the lineout?
Yes, but the player must have been returned safely to the ground before the opposition can contest the ball.

When the ball becomes playable / contestable again?
No different from previous laws. The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout.

This last section (reflecting 15f of RFU Regulation 15 Appendix 8: "The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout or the ball goes beyond the 15m or into the 5m channel.") contradicts all the other points. I shall not apply it to this situation due to the weight of adverse evidence!

Dixie
22-09-16, 17:09
This last section (reflecting 15f of RFU Regulation 15 Appendix 8: "The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout or the ball goes beyond the 15m or into the 5m channel.") contradicts all the other points. I shall not apply it to this situation due to the weight of adverse evidence!

I think you have to apply it. Otherwise you are going to have to re-evaluate many other laws. So maul forms once the catcher lands, and it is immediately pulled down. Where's the PK? Most will expect it to be on the 15m line, but you've decided that the lineout was over, so it would be where the offence took place. Ditto other ruck or maul offences.

The drafting problem is not the duration of the lineout; it is the asinine statement that the lineout is uncontested - when it clearly isn't. The catch is uncontested. Sooner or later the RFU will have to confirm that the contest at the lineout is very much alive for every other aspect other than the catch.

didds
22-09-16, 18:09
undoubtedly it will come out in the wash but im wondering what happens if the throw is short or over the catcher and lands on the floor and stays there. can only the throwing team pick it up? etc


I am not expecting anyone here to have an answer :)

didds

Camquin
22-09-16, 19:09
Did you read the FAQ

What happens if the ball hits the floor?
The lineout is over. Assuming there has been no foul play and that the ball is thrown straight, possession may be contested if the ball hits the ground.

Dixie
29-09-16, 12:09
Did you read the FAQ

What happens if the ball hits the floor?
The lineout is over. Assuming there has been no foul play and that the ball is thrown straight, possession may be contested if the ball hits the ground.

Indeed. But contrast that with the statement (in the same guidance):

The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout. This includes the following:
 When the ball is thrown, knocked or kicked out of the lineout, the lineout ends.
 When the ball or a player carrying the ball moves into the area between the 5-metre line and the touchline, the lineout ends.
 When a lineout player hands the ball to a player who is peeling off, the lineout ends.
 When the ball is thrown beyond the 15-metre line, or when a player takes or puts it beyond that line, the lineout ends.
 When a ruck or maul develops in a lineout, and all the feet of all the players in the ruck or maul move beyond the line of touch, the lineout ends.

They somehow forgot to mention that the lineout is over when the ball hits the floor. One hesitates to suggest they don't know what they are doing, but ... Oh alright then, hesitation over. They don't know what they're doing.

Jolly Roger
18-10-16, 13:10
Interesting. The SRU Law Variations are very different. Line outs are not competed at U12 and below. U13 competed but no lifting. U14 and above are full U19 laws in the line out. I have not encountered any problems with competing line outs or lifting at these age groups. I don't understand the reasons for these restrictions.

crossref
18-10-16, 14:10
Interesting. The SRU Law Variations are very different. Line outs are not competed at U12 and below. U13 competed but no lifting. U14 and above are full U19 laws in the line out. I have not encountered any problems with competing line outs or lifting at these age groups. I don't understand the reasons for these restrictions.

the reason each union makes it own regulations is .... because they are allowed to.

same reason why every merit table organiser has different comp regs from all the others!