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David Martin
17-10-16, 14:10
I've been to 3 festivals in the last 3 weeks and have played 3 different sets of rules all based around the new kicking rules of play.

Is there any chance of some help clearing up the rules with yes/no and a some explanations as there appears to be some confusion around the definition of a free kick,restarts and open play kicking.

1. With a free kick, the player can choose to kick to themselves and then run with it or pass it to a team mate?
2. With a free kick, the player can kick to touch on the full and then the kicking team restarts play where the ball goes out of play.
3. From a restart, the drop kick bounces in play then goes off at the side, the defending team then gets the ball back with a scrum on half way.
4. A kick is charged down and the ball goes forward and out of play without hitting the ground, a scrum is given to the non kicking team where the kick was blocked.
5. All attempts to catch the ball result in the defending team getting the put in at the scrum, whether its from the restart, a free kick or open play.

Any help with whether these are correct or not would be really helpful as we have our home festival. I have my own opinions on them, but would like to discuss them with you guys.

Many thanks

Dave

didds
17-10-16, 15:10
The people to ask would be the RFU, or more specifically the department that handles the junior regs. Many years ago when the RFU website had an excellent forum - its where I firt "met" OB amongst others - there was a specific forum for junior AG rugby, and a guy there (whose name I confess to having forgotten) whilst having no official clout did act by acceptance of the RFU as a conduit for the coal face coaches and this body. He moved on with a change in job etc and the rfu forums died a death following the website redesign.

There maybe localised FB groups (eg Area 2) but on the whole other than bombarding your RDO, there's very little way I perceive for these sort of issues to get to those that "need to know".

that all said - the issue again with new regs etc ius that once they are eventually published fro a season, many coaches and possibly even clibs may not ever see any follow-ups or changes of regs. The fact that three different festivals have all ended up with three different interpretations is a "bit of a worry" as it either means the regs are just confusing, or festival organisers are STILL making up their own rulkes and regs unchallenged (and unchallengeable?!).

Put another way... (and with sympathy for your position!)... the best you can hope from here are some thoughts from referees and a few coaches, but it won't be "definitive". And many of the referees here don;t typically referee mini/midi age group rugby - and many aren't even in RFUland.


didds

didds
17-10-16, 15:10
and my 2p?

Unless there some specific excelsions/alternative spublished in the U11 NRoP, numbers 2, 3 & 4 seem totally out of kilter with the way the game's laws normally work.

i.e.

2) FK cannot be kicked direct to touch outside of a team's "22" (AG rugby has smaller areas of course). I appreciate there is potential confusion here though with the term "Free Kick" versus "Penalty Kick", so this may be something covered by NRoP specifically.

3) the laws normally only require the ball to travel 10m and not go out on the full. The OP's description fits this.

4) charge downs are not knock ons so scrums are not available, and KO into touch doesn't exist. In the OP this can only be a lineout - potentially in line with the charge down if it happened outside of the "22". If U11 NRoP do not have LOs then maybe a scrum, but I;'d expect it to be in line with the line of touch

Items 1 & 5 I would ex-pect to be definitively covered by NRoP.

didds

OB..
17-10-16, 15:10
PM to Anthony Goodman?

AntonyGoodman
17-10-16, 17:10
Hi David,

1. Yes

2. No, standard free kick rules apply (other that that the "22" is actually 15m).

3. No, the defending team only get the scrum option if the ball goes out on the full (assuming the ball has gone 7m before going out). In your scenario, the defending team would get a free pass 5m in from touch in line with where the ball went out.

4. No, a charge down is not a knock on. so in your scenario the kicking team would have a free pass 5m in from touch in line with where the ball went out.

5. No, only kicks from open play are treated in this way. Kicks from the restart or free kicks, normal knock on rules apply.

Hope this all helps, let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Antony

David Martin
17-10-16, 19:10
Many many thanks Anthony.

ive had all sorts of problems getting these points accross. Looks like I'm thinking the same way.

And not many people are understanding that we have free kicks and not penalties in the u11s.

Ive had the following.

1. I awarded a free kick on Sunday, and the child asked me if he could kick it to himself, I said yes, and he did so. The coaches/parents of the defending team were somewhat bewildered with my decision. I explained it was a free kick and he was entitled to run with the ball and not Kick it away.
2. All sorts of issues with this being interpreted as a penalty. It's lead to a largely kicking based game with every free kick being launched long straight out of touch to get the territory and possession. Our festival on Sunday will follow normal free kick rules.
3. It seems that all restarts have been interpreted that the ball has stay on the pitch or its deemed the same as kicking beyond the dead ball line. Very frustrating for the children who can kick accurately into space.
4. The charge down on Sunday was classed as a catch attempt and e ball was taken back off of the kicking team and given as a put in at the scrum to the defending team. I was slightly bemused by this.
5. We've seen it as open play only.

Looks like the refs briefing will will be a long session on Sunday.

Thank you you all for the help.

Dave

Phil E
17-10-16, 19:10
Last Sunday at U11 I saw a mark given from the kick off :rolleyes:

AntonyGoodman
17-10-16, 20:10
Hi David,

Did you not get any help from last years U11 coaches to get you up and running for the new season?

For your festival I would suggest have a few copies of the NRoP printed out and available for those people who want to "discuss" any points after your briefing (or after a game).

I was out and about for my previous post so didn't have the rules to hand, but for completeness here are the relevant sections of the U11 NRoP for your points (all bold words are my emphasis):

1. 5.b)A free kick is a kick from the hand. This can either be a tap by the player to them self, or a kick to gain ground. Opponents must be 7 metres back, towards their own goal line.

2. 9.b) If the ball is kicked from outside of the 22 metre line (15m) directly into touch, a free pass is awarded to opposing team in line with where the ball was kicked and 5 metres in from the touchline, unless the non-kicking team elects to take a quick throw-in, in accordance with 9(g).

and

10.a) If the ball is kicked from within the 22 by the defending team and goes directly into touch, a free pass will be awarded to the non kicking team 5 metres in from the touchline, level with where the ball crossed the touchline. If the ball had been passed back into the“22” by the defending team and there had been no subsequent ruck, maul, tackle or the ball had touched an opposition player, the free pass will be level with where the ball was kicked.

3. 4.d)If the ball does not travel 7 metres or is played by the kicking team before reaching 7 metres or is kicked directly into touch, the non kicking team will have the choice of:i. A throw in to a scrum at the centre of the half way line.ii. The kick to be re-taken

4. 9.d) Other than from a restart, a free kick or charge down, if from a kick the ball is played in flight by a player of the non-kicking team and knocked forward, a scrum will be awarded to the non-kicking team from where the ball is touched.

5. 9.d) Other than from a restart, a free kick or charge down, if from a kick the ball is played in flight by a player of the non-kicking team and knocked forward, a scrum will be awarded to the non-kicking team from where the ball is touched.

Thanks,

Antony

AntonyGoodman
17-10-16, 20:10
Last Sunday at U11 I saw a mark given from the kick off :rolleyes:

FFS can these people not read!

9.c) A mark may be made anywhere on the pitch, with a clean catch direct from an opponent’s kick, other than from a restart or a freekick. For a successful mark, the referee will award a free kick to the catcher’s team.

Thanks,

Antony

David Martin
17-10-16, 23:10
I think the main issue is the wording of 5b and the use of the words. "Gain ground". Some coaches are not getting the lack of penalties and see it as a chance to gain ground and then regain the free pass.

I do do wonder if they actually read the nrop sometimes.

Interestingly there is no mention in any of the laws for u11s that mentions the kicking team getting the ball back after a kick to touch. I'm not sure where that comes from apart from applying the adult game and penalties to the children's game.

is is there any particular reason why a high tackle is a free pass and not a free kick? It seems to have been singled out when a free kick is awarded for foul play.

a mark off of the restart is comedy gold.

AntonyGoodman
18-10-16, 06:10
Hi David,

Yes, agree the words "gain ground" do not help in this situation.

Re the high tackle, I have never had a satisfactory explanation on that one. Just the way it is, it is not really a problem.

This really should not be a problem if coaches from the previous year (U12) came to the U11's and explained how the rules work, they will have already gone through your pain, contacted the RFU, or discovered how the rules are to be interpreted from other experienced people (This is the third year the the U11 NRoP have been in wide use, so there should be plenty of people who know the answers to your questions).

Good luck with your festival, let us know how you got on.

Thanks,

Antony

David Martin
18-10-16, 10:10
Many thanks for the time and help, it's really helped a lot. I'm putting together a little rule sheet highlighting the main points, so I don't forget really and will definitely have the rules printed out.

Unfortunately the age groups seem to keep themselves to themselves, and this appears common across the clubs we've played against. As no one seems to know what the rules actually are.

We had the same last year in the u10s with the clarification of the maul, the first few festivals we had a wide ranging set of scenarios, the best was with 6 children against 2 traveling the whole length of the field. Asking the ref to clarify the rules at half time seemed to make things worse - lol

But I think I'll recommend that we should have a NROP guru at the club that could help each age group, as this seems crazy.

crossref
18-10-16, 10:10
Many thanks for the time and help, it's really helped a lot. I'm putting together a little rule sheet highlighting the main points, so I don't forget really and will definitely have the rules printed out.

Unfortunately the age groups seem to keep themselves to themselves, and this appears common across the clubs we've played against. As no one seems to know what the rules actually are.

We had the same last year in the u10s with the clarification of the maul, the first few festivals we had a wide ranging set of scenarios, the best was with 6 children against 2 traveling the whole length of the field. Asking the ref to clarify the rules at half time seemed to make things worse - lol

But I think I'll recommend that we should have a NROP guru at the club that could help each age group, as this seems crazy.

your club should have a Ref Coordinator who would do things like this (as well as encouraging people to become refs and helping them to arrange training etc, and other duties)

be careful about asking too loudly who this is in your club ... I'd say there's an excellent chance you'll find yourself appointed!

Dan_A
18-10-16, 11:10
Anthony has covered off everything very comprehensively. One thing to add though on your 3rd question that helped me when I was doing u11s. The phrase "directly into touch" caused some confusion as coaches and parents who had bothered to read the NROP wouldn't have found this term defined. In case it's useful the answer is that the NROP specifically says "Any terms defined in these Rules shall have the meanings set out in the World Rugby Laws of the Game".

And World Rugby 13.8 gives the definition:-


13.8 Ball goes directly into touch

The ball must land in the field of play. If it is kicked directly into touch the opposing team has three choices:


To have the ball kicked off again, or
To have a scrum at the centre and they have the throw-in, or
To accept the kick.

If they accept the kick, the lineout is on the half way line. If the ball is blown behind the half way line and goes directly into touch, the lineout is at the place where it went into touch.

imcx
18-10-16, 13:10
I was coaching & refereeing U11 last year (in a county where this was the 1st year of NROP for U11s) and agree with AntonyGoodman's post. However, at some festivals the refs briefing often produced a different conclusion with many not having read the "other than from ..." bit. (It didn't help that there were several changes made to the U11 rules right before the season started.)

On the restart after a high-tackle, I understood the reason for it being a free-pass is that, unlike a free-kick, there is no option to take it quickly. This provides the referee with the opportunity to remind players there and then about safe tackling.

AntonyGoodman
18-10-16, 13:10
On the restart after a high-tackle, I understood the reason for it being a free-pass is that, unlike a free-kick, there is no option to take it quickly. This provides the referee with the opportunity to remind players there and then about safe tackling.

Yes, i have heard this too, but if this was the case, why not foul play as well?

Antony

Dixie
18-10-16, 14:10
5. 9.d) Other than from a restart, a free kick or charge down, if from a kick the ball is played in flight by a player of the non-kicking team and knocked forward, a scrum will be awarded to the non-kicking team from where the ball is touched.

So if a player knocks on while trying to catch his opponent's kick on the full, he wins his team a scrum? Can anyone explain the thinking behind that? Is it to discourage tactical kicking?

AntonyGoodman
18-10-16, 14:10
Two things:

1) Promote the kick into space, not aimless kicking
2) Promote the attempt to catch the ball on the full without fear of reprisal.

Worth mentioning, this only lasts for one season when kicking from open play first appears (U11).

Thanks,

Antony

David Martin
18-10-16, 20:10
Yep I can see that happening as I'm already the club coach coordinator and am trying to get more refs in the club.

I can see this doubling up as a nrop person too.

At least I can say I haven't been warned.

David Martin
18-10-16, 20:10
Thanks Dan A. That will help greatly on Sunday.

David Martin
18-10-16, 20:10
Sorry just reading through the replies. Are we saying that the free kick can be taken quickly and therefore creating the situation of the team being penalised for being offside for not retreating.

AntonyGoodman
19-10-16, 09:10
Hi Dave,


I nearly wrote in response to an earlier post "Wait 'till they find out you can take it quickly", but I had second thoughts about introducing this to the thread when we were talking about some very important basic concepts in the rules early in the season and I didn't want to give you even more heart palpitations before Sunday!


So, yes, it is a free kick and therefore it can be taken quickly. Therefore, yes, the opposition can be penalised for not being 7m.


BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, if this area of the game is not introduced well by a ref who doesn't understand all of the ways to manage the game at these points, it has the capacity to really mess up the game.


Some examples of not managing/introducing this well include:


Not letting the kids know in advance that this is allowed
Not making the SH take the free kick properly (this one aplies to fk's generally)
Letting the SH take the free kick from the wrong place, i.e. not at the place of infringment (or in a line behind the place of infringment)
Letting the SH take the follow up "not 7" free kick from the wrong place or without the ref having made the mark for the follow up free kick
Penalising players for not being 7m back when they are not interfearing with play and/or retreating
Penalising players for not being 7m back many times in a row, when they probably don't even know what the problem is
Telling the kids "You can't take the second one quickly"
And I am sure other people have other examples here as well...


As far as I can see, you have a couple of options for your festival:


1. You can up front tell the other coaches that as this is early in the season and although you know quickly taken free kicks are possible, there are many other things that have been introduced to work on, and so you would like all refs not to allow them today. - wait for the moaning from the 'better' teams about how they have been pracicing this for weeks all through the summer.


2. You can up front tell the other coaches that quickly taken free kicks are allowed and set some expectation about how you would like them to manage that area of the game - the risk here is that some of them will know this already and know how to manage this, some of them will have only have just got their head around some of the more basic rules and will have no idea how this works.


3. You don't mention it in your brief at all, unless someone asks, the assumption being that we all know that they are allowed right? - be prepared for questions through the festival from teams who had no idea about this - potential risk, total mess and a lot of grumbling.


Sorry for the long post, hope it helped.


Thanks,


Antony

Dan_A
19-10-16, 11:10
Antony's answer above is spot on. Also, remember that safety is all important. If there is free kick situation but there is a player down then make a big thing of saying "Time off, just want to check this player" and defintiely don't let the non-offending team take it quickly. Also, don't be afraid to use "Time off, blue team you need to make more effort to get back the 7m" as a way of actually slowing down the situation and preventing abuse of the quick tap by red (where they are just trying to milk ground).

You are in control, they only go quickly if you are happy for them to do it. If you are not happy then walk slowly to the mark...

David Martin
20-10-16, 09:10
Many Thanks Anthony / Dan_A

Our festival in Sunday is classed as a 'Development' festival for new/inexperienced players, so the whole idea of taking the free kick quickly will be a stretch too far (possibly more for the coaches ;) ), so I'll mention it, but say its not allowed, lets focus on taking the free kick properly.

I did think that the free kicks could be taken quickly, but no one has taken one quickly in the 3 festivals I've been too this season I was unsure, as I said before, the parents/coaches of one team were appalled that I let a child take the free kick and then run with it, so I think that's a step too far.

I think there may a case of getting a set of the areas u11 coaches together and go through the rules properly as no one seems to know whats going on :) which is very worrying given they are supposed to be coaching the kids.

What is the issue with "Telling the kids "You can't take the second one quickly"" ?

didds
20-10-16, 09:10
I'll sound really negative here, but you'll never get your area's U11 coaches all together to talk it through. If its a Sunday morning - they want to be coaching. Any other time is an issue because they are at work/away/have other committments/wife won't let them/sick/kid is sick/wife is sick/hamster is sick or they plain don;t care.

You're best option is to try to get everyone on an email chat, or facebook group set up for the purpose. And you still won't get replies or interaction form some, because they listen but never ever respond (so you've no idea if the messages shared have got through) and there will always be those that just refuse to engage - and those that whatever the group decides they will always do what they think, even if its clearly wrong. Ive sat in society meetings where one ref has stated he would always penalise X, despite everybody else in the room discussing the area and agreeing not to.

Good luck . All I will add is that as oong as itrs not dangerous and the players don't get totally upset over it, life is too short.

didds

David Martin
20-10-16, 10:10
Cheers didds,

I totally get where you're coming from, but I've always been the kind of person that will at least try and give people a chance and see what we can do.

I'm going to go round each of the teams that come on Sunday and collect email/phone details of the coaches/refs and I'm gonna try and set up an email group so we can talk about things. What comes of that, who knows, only time will tell.

I've made lots of friends by being a coach/ref and if I can get a few of us talking it can only make things better going forward.

AntonyGoodman
20-10-16, 10:10
What is the issue with "Telling the kids "You can't take the second one quickly"" ?

It is a law myth - there is no such law

Dan_A
20-10-16, 12:10
I think your best bet is to actually do a referees briefing before EVERY festival / joint training or whatever. Do this whilst teams are chasing latecomers and warming up. Invite coaches as well as referees. As you go through the season you'll find the same 3 or 4 things cropping up (your list in the first post is pretty standard - maybe go through that for your first referees briefing). Get the definitive answers to these straight in your head and be able to show the relevant para in the NROP or Laws. Keep a copy of the NROP as a pdf on your phone!!

At the beginning you may actually need 15mins of discussion, but hopefully this need goes away by the end of the season.

David Martin
20-10-16, 13:10
We do a briefing every festival all through the year, its just struck me this year that the kicking rules in the u11 have brought all sorts of crazy interpretations of the laws.

I've been charged with doing the refs briefing, so I thought it was best to get a definitive answer to the contentious issues that I'd experienced over the last 3 weeks.

Dan_A
20-10-16, 14:10
Makes complete sense. Having chapter and verse on those kicking things will definitely help clarify, especially at development level.

Good luck and please do bring back anything else that comes up, it's helpful for everyone who is doing minis and juniors to compare notes!

crossref
20-10-16, 16:10
I think your best bet is to actually do a referees briefing before EVERY festival / joint training or whatever. Do this whilst teams are chasing latecomers and warming up. Invite coaches as well as referees..

DEF invite the coaches as well as the referees!
If you have a programme (some festivals do) write the rules in the programme

at all costs avoid the temptation to create your own special rules. I used to hate when festival organisers did that.

didds
20-10-16, 16:10
at all costs avoid the temptation to create your own special rules. I used to hate when festival organisers did that.


This. ^^^

didds

Dan_A
20-10-16, 16:10
My youngest son's team once lost out in a trophy final at one of the big local festivals. Over the day we had scored more tries than anyone else, conceded fewer, and we hadn't lost a match. We had already beaten the other finalists in the pool phase earlier that day and had sportingly lent them players as they were short. The final finished 1-1.

Then the organizers showed us the rules:-
""In the event of a tie in the final, the trophy will be awarded to the team that has traveled the furthest".

This wasn't us and the oppo team were not interested in sharing as the rules were on their side!!

Phil E
20-10-16, 16:10
My youngest son's team once lost out in a trophy final at one of the big local festivals. Over the day we had scored more tries than anyone else, conceded fewer, and we hadn't lost a match. We had already beaten the other finalists in the pool phase earlier that day and had sportingly lent them players as they were short. The final finished 1-1.

Then the organizers showed us the rules:-
""In the event of a tie in the final, the trophy will be awarded to the team that has traveled the furthest".

This wasn't us and the oppo team were not interested in sharing as the rules were on their side!!


It's not all about winning! :wink:

Dan_A
20-10-16, 16:10
Completely unsurprisingly this caused more upset amongst the parents than the players. The players knew that they were the moral victors, got their medals and hamburgers and went home happy. Which is what it's all about. (p.s. I'm still fuming however.....) :hap:http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/smilies/1.gifhttp://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/smilies/1.gif

Phil E
20-10-16, 17:10
Completely unsurprisingly this caused more upset amongst the parents than the players. The players knew that they were the moral victors, got their medals and hamburgers and went home happy. Which is what it's all about. (p.s. I'm still fuming however.....) :hap:http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/smilies/1.gifhttp://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/smilies/1.gif


Rugby's the winner :wink:

crossref
20-10-16, 18:10
My youngest son's team once lost out in a trophy final at one of the big local festivals. Over the day we had scored more tries than anyone else, conceded fewer, and we hadn't lost a match. We had already beaten the other finalists in the pool phase earlier that day and had sportingly lent them players as they were short. The final finished 1-1.

Then the organizers showed us the rules:-
""In the event of a tie in the final, the trophy will be awarded to the team that has traveled the furthest".

This wasn't us and the oppo team were not interested in sharing as the rules were on their side!!


My son's team once went to the County finals, it was U11 or something like that.

We lost our first pool game, but our final pool game was against club-x, the favourites, who were actually the hosting club on the day.

The boys played their hearts out and managed to beat them! :) The pool finished with us and club-x in a tie, both losing the one game.

Turned out we were equal on tries scored as well, which was what the programme said came next.

So, the coaches ran off to the organisers tent, to find out the full rules.

Guess who qualified for the knock out rounds? Club X did!

I can't remember the precise details, it was something to do with performance in previous qualifying rounds earlier in the season

It was very hard to explain to the boys why we packed out tent for home, while club-x whom we had just beaten, warmed up for the semi-final :-(

didds
20-10-16, 22:10
the more stories I read and hear like this, the more I feel justified in considering festivals the spawn of satan. I think I went to four in total.

didds

AntonyGoodman
23-10-16, 09:10
the more stories I read and hear like this, the more I feel justified in considering festivals the spawn of satan. I think I went to four in total.

In my experience it is completely in the power of the festival organisers to make it great, or make it a total mess. I have been to many of both types.

New RFU regulations for this year should improve things in this area.

http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/31/80/26/AgeGradeRugbyCompetitiveMenu_English.pdf

Thanks,

Antony

didds
24-10-16, 09:10
In my experience it is completely in the power of the festival organisers to make it great, or make it a total mess. I have been to many of both types.


Undoubtedly Anthony.

But how many does one attend before one finds a "good one" ? I attended four festivals with my two sons and age groups I coached. Every single one of them seemsed to consist of everybody arriving before 9am to be registered, with eventually starting a game at around 10.30 am, or even gone 11am!. Three matches would then be strung out between then and about 1.30pm with huge gaps between them. Then if a team was "lucky" (!!!!!!) It got to play a semi final at about 2.30pm after "a lunch break" (FFS!) and a maybe final at 3.30pm. That is at best 5 matches in something like 7 hours of attendance - at younger age groups these matches may be less than 20 minutes long of course.

that's pants. Totally and utterly pants. Frankly players are better off meeting at 10:15, and playing three games in a three way meeting . That's as much rugby as the pool stages., no ridiculous hanging around and leaves the rest of the day for everybody to have another life, and sufficient time toi drink, and have a coaching session as well.

And don't even start me in the (some) coach-win-at-all attitudes, of the fringe players getting 5 minutes play in those 7 hours, the 5-a-car entry fee when there is no option, placed on a "pitch" several miles from a toilet, shelter from the elements, which seems to be on a 1 in 3 slope/rubbish tip/ploughed field. Nor the "only ten players permitted per squad" leaving the undoubtedly weakest ten players with nothing to do that weekend (oh what an opportunity to provide some back fill for them!) because oh-what-a-surprise EVERY coach HAS to attend the festival and of course that means THEIR child ALWAYS plays at EVERY festival.

Funny how when I used to raise these concerns constantly with my own club, parents, coaches (as CCC!), RDOs and county coach committees etc everyone would just shuffle their feet and look the other way. it was a real elephant in the room - everybody acknowledged these issues privately but nobody ever addressed them. I would offer to run sessions myself for players left behind - to find of course then a mixture of coaches never actually bothering to tell those non selected players and parents that the session was available, to potential trainees not being available in the end because their sibling was attending the festival in another AG and of course the whole family had to attend for whatever bizarre reason.

They were shit.

didds

David Martin
09-11-16, 14:11
Many Many thanks Everyone

Our festival went off very well and I made it very clear about how we were going to run the festival based on the rules that we discussed on here.

Had one coach dispute the kicking rules, but he at least came up and apologized later on, he actually went away and read the rules.

I'm still amazed at how many coaches/refs dont actually know the rules they are reffing.


Had a further festival the week after and had the same issues with the kicking rules, but had the confidence to speak up and get them to change their minds, all the guys that were at our festival backed me, so that was nice.

Pinky
09-11-16, 18:11
David, just watch out as you will get roped in to do this again if it all went off OK.

Dan_A
10-11-16, 09:11
One further idea for you. Years ago I organised a festival at our club, which hadn't hosted one for many years. As I went along I saved all sort of documents (e.g. invitations, contact lists, playing schedule, rules). Once the festival was finished I spent an hour going through these and making sure I had everything labelled and filed.

The next year the age group below was given the task of organising the festival. I was able to provide a complete set of templates, which was VERY gratefully received!!

David Martin
11-11-16, 09:11
LOL, this is the 3rd year I've run our age group, so no fear of that.

The advantages of having the head of the mini section as your head coach.

Dan_A
11-11-16, 11:11
LOL, this is the 3rd year I've run our age group, so no fear of that.


Job for life mate, I've run my older boys age group from u9 to u15. One more season and they're Colts and I would retire, except youngest son's age group need help with refereeing!

manager
21-11-16, 12:11
Undoubtedly Anthony.

But how many does one attend before one finds a "good one" ? I attended four festivals with my two sons and age groups I coached. Every single one of them seemsed to consist of everybody arriving before 9am to be registered, with eventually starting a game at around 10.30 am, or even gone 11am!. Three matches would then be strung out between then and about 1.30pm with huge gaps between them. Then if a team was "lucky" (!!!!!!) It got to play a semi final at about 2.30pm after "a lunch break" (FFS!) and a maybe final at 3.30pm. That is at best 5 matches in something like 7 hours of attendance - at younger age groups these matches may be less than 20 minutes long of course.

that's pants. Totally and utterly pants. Frankly players are better off meeting at 10:15, and playing three games in a three way meeting . That's as much rugby as the pool stages., no ridiculous hanging around and leaves the rest of the day for everybody to have another life, and sufficient time toi drink, and have a coaching session as well.

And don't even start me in the (some) coach-win-at-all attitudes, of the fringe players getting 5 minutes play in those 7 hours, the 5-a-car entry fee when there is no option, placed on a "pitch" several miles from a toilet, shelter from the elements, which seems to be on a 1 in 3 slope/rubbish tip/ploughed field. Nor the "only ten players permitted per squad" leaving the undoubtedly weakest ten players with nothing to do that weekend (oh what an opportunity to provide some back fill for them!) because oh-what-a-surprise EVERY coach HAS to attend the festival and of course that means THEIR child ALWAYS plays at EVERY festival.

Funny how when I used to raise these concerns constantly with my own club, parents, coaches (as CCC!), RDOs and county coach committees etc everyone would just shuffle their feet and look the other way. it was a real elephant in the room - everybody acknowledged these issues privately but nobody ever addressed them. I would offer to run sessions myself for players left behind - to find of course then a mixture of coaches never actually bothering to tell those non selected players and parents that the session was available, to potential trainees not being available in the end because their sibling was attending the festival in another AG and of course the whole family had to attend for whatever bizarre reason.

They were shit.

didds

Haha classic! Having attended tournaments from U7-U12 it brought back so many memories. A particular favourite of mine was the rule on total playing time for individual players. The intention is great...but a small squad in a large tournament (you know - the ones that have too many teams per group) meant that they could find themselves in a position where they reached the final but couldn't actually field enough players!