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BrummieRef
07-05-18, 12:05
So situation is red tackled, red support is in a rucking position over the Ball and the ball is presented correctly to red side. Red scrum half is a little slow and blue has come down the side and stolen the ball out of the 'ruck'. Blue was the tackler-assist who remained on feet. They did not get hands on until after red was over ball.

Now there is no red opponent in the ruck and as rules state there have to be one from each side to form a ruck.

I have given free pass to red as it looked wrong but I'm now not to sure what would of been the correct decision?

Rich_NL
07-05-18, 14:05
I'm not sure what you're describing - red support is over the ball, blue assist is over the ball, but there's no rucking?

If blue ran around the side to get the ball, it's a penalty against blue - either offside for a ruck or not through the gate if it's still a tackle.

crossref
07-05-18, 16:05
I think this is a England specific question, relating to RFU rules of play

BrummieRef
07-05-18, 17:05
Yes this is RFU under 10 rules. In an ideal situation red could/should of picked up the ball as there was no ruck but instead protected the ball. Blue instead of binding on to form the ruck came around the side and took the ball from under reds legs. I guess it comes down to did Blue make contact with red when they came in around the side.

Flish
07-05-18, 19:05
In RFU NROP there is an offside line at the back foot of the tackle, so ruck / guard is irrelevant. The only options for Blue are hold at the back foot until played away or contest the ruck (through the gate, bind on etc), so correct decision is free pass (penalty) to Red.

Flish
07-05-18, 19:05
Consider that a ruck at U10 is one on one and no more, so very shallow and narrow, quite difficult to prevent the urge to pick it up when right in front of them

BrummieRef
07-05-18, 22:05
Thanks Flish, that's cleared up in my mind it was the right choice. Your right the ruck is narrow with only one v one and some of the kids do try there luck with it. I like the thinking that there is no ruck only the offside at the tackle so his only options is to wait behind the offside at the tackle line or ruck.

It was an intense game to ref, as had one player swinging the sharp end of a horozontal elbow raised above his own armpit at anyone who tried to tackle him aimed at the tackles head. Granted the tacklers where coming in above the waist but below the armpits as they do in this age group with a more standing up in the tackle style. After several warnings and the threat of enforced substitution the time on the clock ran out...

Now on to read up on the under 11 rules for next season.

Flish
08-05-18, 07:05
Enjoy, i’ve just come to the end of U11 season and very much looking forward to U12s! Offside at the kick is a hard one to coach, and never having a marked 22 (15m) line makes the whole kick to touch thing a challenge too. Rucks and Mauls are more obvious though so that’s easier

didds
08-05-18, 08:05
I'm not "seeing" this fully.

Where was the ball in all of this? Under red's foot (ie red foot closer to DBL than ball) or "out".

If "out" do NRoP permit open play laws to now operate? IE is tackle offside permanent irrespective of ball position until played away?

didds

Flish
08-05-18, 08:05
In OP the ball was being presented by tackled player with 1 man over the ball in guard, so a mono-ruck, and offside in place (from the tackle in this case, but outside of NROP it would be from the mono ruck).

If balls was out though then yes, in open play and offside lines have gone

BrummieRef
08-05-18, 09:05
I'm not "seeing" this fully.

Where was the ball in all of this? Under red's foot (ie red foot closer to DBL than ball) or "out".

If "out" do NRoP permit open play laws to now operate? IE is tackle offside permanent irrespective of ball position until played away?

didds

Yes under reds foot, red BC was on the ground, but no opposition to ruck with. In under 9's there is no ruck, only tackle. At the tackle offside the opposition can't compete for the ball and must wait until it's played away. After 7 tackles it's an auto turnover. The rule to stay away on the tackle offside or auto turn ovet is not in under 10's.

So in under 10 the opposition can compete and steal the ball. Hands on the ball before ruck, etc. But only one v one in the ruck.

Either way in my mind he made contact when he went under the player to pick up the ball up and made contact thus forming the ruck and in at the side. If the ball was out, I.e the ball was placed behind the guards leg. I would of still given a penalty to red at the time but now I don't think i would. Out by the SH defo open play.

Phil E
08-05-18, 10:05
From the original OP


and blue has come down the side and stolen the ball

For me this would be a FK (penalty) as he hasn't come through the gate at the tackle (came down the side).

Unless the ball had clearly left the tackle area.

I am thinking at that age we want to encourage them to come through the gate, so a FK with explanation would not be a bad thing.

Flish
08-05-18, 10:05
From the original OP



For me this would be a FK (penalty) as he hasn't come through the gate at the tackle (came down the side).

Unless the ball had clearly left the tackle area.

I am thinking at that age we want to encourage them to come through the gate, so a FK with explanation would not be a bad thing.

Quite, we're also coaching as well as refereeing in this scenario, so not only do we have the laws but the best practice we want to see from the kids, back foot, through that gate, hands off etc. So ping, and take the time to explain what's going on, why, and what you want to see from them. Not like they are allowed to 'go quick' from the penalty at U10 so plenty of time to coach