PDA

View Full Version : [Mini/Midi] Ball Carrier rolls after tackle



spudton
05-09-18, 16:09
U12s coaching/refereeing question...
A few of my boys have been away at London Irish camp and have been coached to roll forward after being tackled to avoid the jackle. Would you coach this? when is it and isn't an infringement? Does it become an infringement later on and therefore a pointless thing to coach now?
thanks.

didds
05-09-18, 16:09
Hate it.

like squeezeball its a lazy technique/approach to in contact ball control and support issues.

Wish it would get pinged every time.

And no, I don't coach it.

oldman
05-09-18, 18:09
Totally outside the law. Tackled player must release ball immediately he is tackled, ie brought to ground. As Didds says should be pinged. Can a coach tell us how it conforms to the law?

crossref
05-09-18, 19:09
It's also one of the things cascaded down from the RFu this season for refs to be especially aware of, and ping

didds
05-09-18, 21:09
Totally outside the law. Tackled player must release ball immediately he is tackled, ie brought to ground. As Didds says should be pinged. Can a coach tell us how it conforms to the law?

I can;t that's for sure. The first time I saw it I thought "how on earth does that not get pinged". Ive seen our colts do it in the past, and older youth age group players too across the board. I'm not saying they have all been coached to do it but I suspect some have (not necessarily our club). It even looks wrong!

Dickie E
05-09-18, 21:09
If a ball carrier is tackled I'm Ok with him/her half rolling in order to present the ball to his/her team

Flish
05-09-18, 22:09
I coach U12s and don’t coach this, the only movement I allow ball carriers on the ground is natural momentum and to set the ball

ChrisR
06-09-18, 01:09
As said by didds and Dickie E. A half roll to get the ball to your side of the body, no more. It may be coached but not by me. It's found a home in the pro game.

crossref
06-09-18, 07:09
In my experience it has also, for some reason, found a particular home in the youth game.

Rich_NL
06-09-18, 09:09
I've seen it especially around juniors/u16 level. I give one warning, then ping it. Players learn quickly, it's clearly a conscious choice because I've never had to ping more than once.

spudton
06-09-18, 09:09
It's also one of the things cascaded down from the RFu this season for refs to be especially aware of, and ping

Thanks, do you have any material thats been passed down that you could share?

crossref
06-09-18, 10:09
Thanks, do you have any material thats been passed down that you could share?

We have been promised the slides, but haven't been distributed yet. If we get them I will put a link on rugbyrefs

Taff
06-09-18, 13:09
If a ball carrier is tackled I'm Ok with him/her half rolling in order to present the ball to his/her team
Same here Dickie. I can't remember who told me this, but my understanding is that the ball carrier (BC) can roll once but no more. It makes sense to me, if the BC is sprinting and gets brought to ground, the chances of him falling in the ideal way to present the ball is slim; so I'm OK with him rolling over once. That's how I've been reffing it for at least 3 years and no assessor has pulled me up on it.

2 or 3 rolls though is just taking the mick, and won't be allowed.

crossref
06-09-18, 15:09
But this season we are being asked to ref it more strictly .. by WR via the RFU, and I imagine that soon the same message will reach you , taff.
So if you continue to ref it the way you have been, likely you will get pulled up by am assessor

Taff
06-09-18, 16:09
But this season we are being asked to ref it more strictly .. by WR via the RFU, and I imagine that soon the same message will reach you, Taff. So if you continue to ref it the way you have been, likely you will get pulled up by am assessor
Possibly, but until I get told differently (either verbally in our monthly meetings or by e-mail via the WRU) I intend carrying on as before.

Given that I have a game on Saturday I will e-mail the society secretary just to clarify though.

Ian_Cook
07-09-18, 11:09
As said by didds and Dickie E. A half roll to get the ball to your side of the body, no more. It may be coached but not by me. It's found a home in the pro game.

Also it doesn't just avoid a jackler, it also does a few other things

1. gets the ball carrying team a cheap 1 - 2 metres extra territory; the tackler has just worked hard to bring the BC down a metre short of the gain line; the BC has just negated that by cheating.

2. the tackled player rolling forward into the legs of an arriving player is likely to over balance him so he puts his hands down.... no jackle after that.

3. causes the defence to misjudge where they need to stand; the potential offside line suddenly moves back a metre or two, so they have to back-pedal. Quick ball at that moment will see them at a disadvantage

WR need to put a stop to this forward roll business at all levels of the game - the kids will just copy what they see on TV.

Shelflife
07-09-18, 13:09
I agree with Ian and dont allow it.

It seems to be coached at youth level over here as well.

crossref
07-09-18, 16:09
Possibly, but until I get told differently (either verbally in our monthly meetings or by e-mail via the WRU) I intend carrying on as before.

Given that I have a game on Saturday I will e-mail the society secretary just to clarify though.

I have every sympathy , but on the other hand the new approach is quite well known and you don't want to be in the situation where the coaches, all the players and indeed You , are all aware of the new guidelines , but you are refusing to implement them because you haven't had an email yet


Why is the rugby world so poor at cascade ?

ChrisR
07-09-18, 18:09
One of the more common injuries to NFL linemen is for players to get rolled into them and injuring their knees. A tackled player rolling forward can have a similar effect on a defender, getting cut off at the knees.

Phil E
08-09-18, 12:09
Thanks, do you have any material that's been passed down that you could share?

I have added the slides in a new thread here....http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?21017-2018-19-law-messages&p=348537#post348537

TigerCraig
10-09-18, 05:09
Long long ago in a galaxy far far away anyone rolling around would have gotten a good trampling

#bringbackrucking :biggrin:

spudton
11-09-18, 08:09
Hi, I can't access that. Is it a part of the forum that needs special access?

spudton
11-09-18, 08:09
I have added the slides in a new thread here....http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?21017-2018-19-law-messages&p=348537#post348537

Hi I can't access that, us it part of the forum that needs extra access?

didds
11-09-18, 08:09
Hi, I can't access that. Is it a part of the forum that needs special access?

yes - it's a refs only forum where the refs here can moan about us coaches ;-)

didds

Rich_NL
11-09-18, 09:09
I can't see it either...

crossref
11-09-18, 09:09
yes - it's a refs only forum where the refs here can moan about us coaches ;-)

didds

Has there been a leak ?

didds
11-09-18, 10:09
secret memo CR!

Phil E
12-09-18, 08:09
Hi I can't access that, us it part of the forum that needs extra access?


I can't see it either...

Not a secret as I have presented it to local clubs.
I have had to remove the accompanying videos due to size restrictions.
3797