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View Full Version : A lot of U11 questions...



mcroker
16-10-18, 20:10
I just received a bulk-lot of U11 law questions from one of my fellow U11 coaches. Thought I'd share here to see who agreed/disagreed with the answers I gave him.

1. At a free kick, or free pass oponents must be 7 metres back. If you tell them and they don't retreat the required distance or, if they do but then encroach before the kick or free pass is taken, what is the sanction (and from where is it awarded)?


2. At a free pass, no player may run until the pass is made. If they do, what is the sanction (and where awarded)?


3. When a maul goes to ground do the defending players need to release the ball carrier and allow him to play the ball?


4. When a maul goes down, how long do you wait to see if the ball can be played before awarding the scrum to the team not originally in possession (5 seconds in total from start of formation of maul?)?


5. What is the sanction for a fly hack - free kick to non offending team from where the hack occurred?


6. We've not covered it with the kids yet but to get a successful 'mark' I assume the catcher has to call the 'mark' and make the signal?


7. If when kicking in open play, the kicker gets taken out late, is the free kick from where the ball lands?


8. If one of the props strikes for the ball in the scrum, presumably a free kick to the non offending team?


9. For a blatant feed to the scrum is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?


10. Is there anything in the age grade rules to stop a team taking a free kick quickly. It is not explicitly stated but the way I read it they can't?


11. If the ball is ripped from the ball carrier but not passed (they run instead) is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?


12. If the scrum half picks up the ball from the scrum and runs with it, is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?


I'm not sure I fully understand the sanction around rule 9.g) and an incorrect quick throw but probably easier to discuss when I next see you as we've not even covered that one yet.

mcroker
16-10-18, 20:10
And to reply to my own questions... ;)


1. At a free kick, or free pass oponents must be 7 metres back. If you tell them and they don't retreat the required distance or, if they do but then encroach before the kick or free pass is taken, what is the sanction (and from where is it awarded)?

Theoretically if they fail to retreat they are offside (for which the sanction at U11 is another FK). So the theoretically correct answer to your question is if they interfere with play, the sanction is a FK on the offside line (i.e. 7m ahead of the first FK). If they just continue to retreat until put onside - play on. In practice, at U11 I don't think I'd allow a quick FK so would be able to manage it myself.


2. At a free pass, no player may run until the pass is made. If they do, what is the sanction (and where awarded)?

There's no real parallel in full laws for this - on the occasions It's happened to me I've just stopped play, warned the team and then retaken the free-pass.


3. When a maul goes to ground do the defending players need to release the ball carrier and allow him to play the ball?

No. In a tackle there is an obligation on the tackler to roll-away, and on the assistant tacklers to release. In a maul, there is no obligation for players to move away and they can deliberately lie all over the ball.


4. When a maul goes down, how long do you wait to see if the ball can be played before awarding the scrum to the team not originally in possession (5 seconds in total from start of formation of maul?)?

Law says ball must be available within 5 secs of the maul commencing... I am deliberately slow to call 'maul' (deeming it potential tackle in progress), and if I thought the ball was coming, or the maul was moving forward I might stretch the 5s a little to allow the ball to come out. Really I'm just trying to keep the game flowing.


5. What is the sanction for a fly hack - free kick to non offending team from where the hack occurred?

I don't think it's specified in law/reg 15. I think FK is probably fair but I wouldn't have an issue with us deciding scrum. It's not listed as one of the 'infringements' (para 14) - so I think free-pass (which is applied for PK offences) would be wrong.


6. We've not covered it with the kids yet but to get a successful 'mark' I assume the catcher has to call the 'mark' and make the signal?

Extrapolating from adult laws - the catcher has to catch the ball cleanly, and call 'Mark'. (the signal is optional, but I suspect most refs. would accept instead of call).


7. If when kicking in open play, the kicker gets taken out late, is the free kick from where the ball lands?

If you were to adapt the adult laws the FK would be from either the place of the kick, or where the ball lands / is next played (with other laws applying if in touch etc.). In practice at U11 - I am probably going to award it at the place of the infringement, as that will best reenforce the connection between offence and outcome.


8. If one of the props strikes for the ball in the scrum, presumably a free kick to the non offending team?

Yes I guess so, although I would probably warn/reset first few times it happened. I suspect it's there as a safety thing, so it's not one you can play-on from.


9. For a blatant feed to the scrum is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?

Yes, although again I might reset first time


10. Is there anything in the age grade rules to stop a team taking a free kick quickly. It is not explicitly stated but the way I read it they can't?

I agree, as I read it - It's not explicitly permitted/denied. I'm not sure I would allow it though, you probably get a better game if you don't (which would also resolve item 1).


11. If the ball is ripped from the ball carrier but not passed (they run instead) is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?

It's not specified in law/age grade. It's a technical offence, so I would go with a scrum but I wouldn't have an issue with us deciding free-kick instead, as long as you were consistent.


12. If the scrum half picks up the ball from the scrum and runs with it, is the sanction a free kick to the non offending team?

It's not specified in law/age grade. It's a technical offence, so I would go with a scrum but I wouldn't have an issue with us deciding free-kick instead, as long as you were consistent.


14. I'm not sure I fully understand the sanction around rule 9.g) and an incorrect quick throw but probably easier to discuss when I next see you as we've not even covered that one yet.

This makes no sense at all - and is probably a typo... I suspect they meant 'award a free pass' (i.e. if you can't take it quickly, then you take it 'normally' using the standard free pass 5m from touch).

Flish
16-10-18, 20:10
Nothing in there that’s unreasonable or obviously wrong, although I suspect most of the questions are in vain as you won’t see most of those scenarios! In reality, especially the odd ones with no sanction you’re probably better off taking a coaching opportunity and ‘go again’, unless maybe repeat infringements or a very dominant team.

Don’t forget the fun one though, if a player knocks on trying to catch a kick in open play then they get the scrum!!!

mcroker
16-10-18, 20:10
Don’t forget the fun one though, if a player knocks on trying to catch a kick in open play then they get the scrum!!!

Unless I'm reffing where I fail to remember this every time ;)

BrummieRef
17-10-18, 10:10
Not a lot wrong with that. If the game has stopped for a free kick, free pass or scrum and there is something wrong I will usually get them to replay it. If it's persistent I will escalate and take proper action for the infringement.

Some of our players have started taking quick throw in's and free kicks (something they have picked up from school) and I have not been to sure whether to allow it. Free kick I have allowed but will pull it back if the ball has not been kicked into touch.

Interesting you adopt a scrum rather than a free kick for some infringements. I have gone down the free kick replaces free pass except where specified route especially as most teams tap and go at the moment unless in there 22.

My personal fav is the kick past dead ball or past goal in-touch and explaining that they cant have a scrum from the place it was kicked it has to be a drop 22.

Flish
17-10-18, 11:10
I interpreted it as quick taps are allowed (previous age grades there as specific wording along the lines 'wait for the ref to call play' so in absence of this allow it), however you need to manage it, especially as we're supposed to be coaching too, ie don't allow them to go quick if you're still explaining to oppos your decision.

I also used scrum restarts only where specified, and a free quick / play again for oddities. Mostly from a coaching angle in that I don't think 3 man scrums help prepare the kids (wrong body position as no second row support, props can't keep ball in, etc, etc), I know coach U12 and 5 man scrums are much more realistic

didds
17-10-18, 11:10
Its a long time since I coached mini/midi squads, and certainly before the "nearest three" thing but the three man scrum thing was always, and still ism an issue.

In that - Flish's points are bang on about scrummaging development - but the problem then is (and this isn't a pop at Flish cos Ive been here myself!) if we just "ignore" any attempt at "real" scrummaging (albeit for some sensible reasons such as above) then what is the point of the scrum - unless it is to remove 4 players a side from the wide open spaces?

I'll add that at younger age groups players don;t have the body awareness to fulfill good scrummaging shapes anyway, so I am easily of the "wots the point guv" brigade anyway. Personally, push come to shove I wouldn't bother with scrums until maybe U14 or U15 anyway. Tower of Power can still be developed earlier of course and that has benefits in other aspects of the game anyway

Flish
17-10-18, 14:10
I think at U11 they were torn which way to go in terms of progression and just ended up with this weird unhelpful middle ground, and threw in 3 man scrums as a token gesture (they could have stuck with a free pass restart and implemented the rest), however, we have what we have.

didds
17-10-18, 16:10
as I say above flish I suppose what it does do is take 4 players aside out of the wider channels for a small amount of time so the argument would be maybe that it develops the OUTSIDE players' game in so doing.

I'll sit happy with that.

didds

Flish
17-10-18, 17:10
Reaching I think, but i’ll go with it in absence of a better reason ;-)

Then in U12 they add another 6 kids on the same size pitch and bunch it all up again!