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Dickie E
17-11-20, 09:11
From the NZ v Arg game.

Blue attempt a drop goal. A Black defender attempts to charge down, getting a finger tip to the ball, deflects the ball so that it misses posts but goes over DBL.

What is the correct restart?

A clue: has Black "taken" the ball into in-goal by intentionally attempting a charge down?

crossref
17-11-20, 09:11
I would give a 5m attacking scrum, ie to blue, as black was last to play the ball

What was actually given ?

Dickie E
17-11-20, 10:11
I would give a 5m attacking scrum, ie to blue, as black was last to play the ball

What was actually given ?

with no hesitation ... 22 drop out

02:13 on the game clock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeDcssYXt64

Jz558
17-11-20, 10:11
On the grounds that if a ball was touched in flight following a kick and then goes into touch I would give the throw to the kicking side I would give the 5m attacking scrum here. The touch by Black was intentional, and they would expect to gain if the charge down had been successful and so it seems a risk and reward scenario. Having not seen the footage I bet the ref awarded a 22m drop out though.

Jz558
17-11-20, 10:11
Ive just watched the footage and AG gave the 22. It seems to me though that they gave it because the deflection wasn't C&O which is fair enough.

didds
17-11-20, 10:11
From the NZ v Arg game.

Blue attempt a drop goal. A Black defender attempts to charge down, getting a finger tip to the ball, deflects the ball so that it misses posts but goes over DBL.

What is the correct restart?

A clue: has Black "taken" the ball into in-goal by intentionally attempting a charge down?



Havent we been here before - about a million times?

Some will argue its a scrum 5m as last person to touch the ball was a defender
Some will argue its a 22m drop out as the wording is "played the ball" which insinuates a deliberate action, and they will claim whilst its a deliberate attempt to play the ball it was not a deliberate attempt to put the ball in goal.
Some will just lose the will to live as the debate goes around and around in circles with nobody changing their position, for several weeks until something else gets repeated as attention moves to that instead.


My 2p? 5m attaching scrum and sell it.

NEXT!

didds

didds
17-11-20, 10:11
with no hesitation ... 22 drop out

02:13 on the game clock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeDcssYXt64

well, except that no black touched the ball. It misses Smith easily.

so its a 22 drop out cos blue kicked it dead with a DG attempt.

end of. as normal.

didds
17-11-20, 10:11
Ive just watched the footage and AG gave the 22. It seems to me though that they gave it because the deflection wasn't C&O which is fair enough.

well AG clearly says the ball missed him. So there wasnt even debate over a deflection - the To3/4 between them very qickly identified it never even got close to be debated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeDcssYXt64&t=218 ie 218 seconds into the YT video onwards

Dickie E
17-11-20, 11:11
Havent we been here before - about a million times?

Some will argue its a scrum 5m as last person to touch the ball was a defender
Some will argue its a 22m drop out as the wording is "played the ball" which insinuates a deliberate action, and they will claim whilst its a deliberate attempt to play the ball it was not a deliberate attempt to put the ball in goal.
Some will just lose the will to live as the debate goes around and around in circles with nobody changing their position, for several weeks until something else gets repeated as attention moves to that instead.


My 2p? 5m attaching scrum and sell it.

NEXT!

didds

Gee. Iso stress?

didds
17-11-20, 12:11
que?

ISO?

didds

crossref
17-11-20, 17:11
Ive just watched the footage and AG gave the 22. It seems to me though that they gave it because the deflection wasn't C&O which is fair enough.

that's what I thought - seems to me they weren't sure it was touched, and if they had been sure they would have given a scrum.

I think that was fair - in theory I guess they could have TMOd it, but that would have taken ages, and I agree better to go with an onfield decision .

didds
17-11-20, 18:11
They did TO4 it I thought? And it was very quickly answered?

"has anyone got anything different?"

didds

Dickie E
18-11-20, 02:11
que?

ISO?

didds

iso stress is when the isolation from lock down leads to uncharacteristic belligerence. I was wondering if you were suffering from it.

SimonSmith
18-11-20, 09:11
I suspect that the confusion from this neck of the woods is down to the TV commentators saying definitively that there had been a touch, and that AG was applying a (made up) law about the intent behind the would-be charge down.

To my memory, they made no mention of the ball not having been touched.

Dickie E
18-11-20, 09:11
so we're all in furious agreement?

If it had been touched, 5m scrum

If it hadn't been touched, 22 drop out

(mutters under breath: sometimes it's like herding cats)

didds
18-11-20, 10:11
iso stress is when the isolation from lock down leads to uncharacteristic belligerence. I was wondering if you were suffering from it.

How dare you say that. How insulting .

etc etc etc ad nauseum ;-)

I'm a prop forward. Cut me in half and it says belije... bellygyrre... stroppy


didds

- - - Updated - - -


I suspect that the confusion from this neck of the woods is down to the TV commentators saying definitively that there had been a touch, and that AG was applying a (made up) law about the intent behind the would-be charge down.

To my memory, they made no mention of the ball not having been touched.

That's basically the first thing they said once the replay ran?



didds

SimonSmith
18-11-20, 22:11
How dare you say that. How insulting .

etc etc etc ad nauseum ;-)

I'm a prop forward. Cut me in half and it says belije... bellygyrre... stroppy


didds

- - - Updated - - -



That's basically the first thing they said once the replay ran?



didds

As I remember it, yes. I could stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, but they were talking a lot, and overtalking the ref's explanation. (I think we had the NZ feed, and one or two exceptions, the commentators were ****ing idiots)

didds
19-11-20, 00:11
yes - the commentators DID talk over the ref - annoying.

didds

ianh5979
19-11-20, 07:11
yes - the commentators DID talk over the ref - annoying.

didds

Thats because they are obviously have a better understanding of the laws than the ref, so they dont need his opinion:tongue::sarc:

Jz558
19-11-20, 10:11
It does seem reasonable to conclude though that if the team of officals had thought that the ball was touched in flight they would have awarded a 5m scrum on the premise that if the touch was irrelevant then there would be no point in discussing it at all?

Dickie E
19-11-20, 11:11
It does seem reasonable to conclude though that if the team of officals had thought that the ball was touched in flight they would have awarded a 5m scrum on the premise that if the touch was irrelevant then there would be no point in discussing it at all?

what if the touch had been inadvertent? For example, defender had back to kicker and ball deflects from him over DBL. Restart?

crossref
19-11-20, 13:11
what if the touch had been inadvertent? For example, defender had back to kicker and ball deflects from him over DBL. Restart?

For me it's still going to be a 5m scrum, based on the defender touched it last.

Reasons
1 - consistency with how we judge touch
2 - there are scenarios where the ball wouldn't have gone dead unless it hit the defender (perhaps attacker was kicking for touch in the corner) and I don't want to be judging where the ball might have gone if it hadn't hit the defender.

OB..
20-11-20, 15:11
I have replayed my recording the incident frame by frame and am comfortable that he did not actually touch the ball.