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termination of a referee

Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average.
I joined the london society 3 years ago and reached a level10 standard but despite attempts to ask for promotion or ask questions I have been perceived as being rude and arrogant .
Without a hearing or meeting I have been despatched an emailed saying my registration has been withdrawn for reasons which i would dispute if allowed to .
I enjoyed a good playing career including national leagues and coached 1st xv level up to LONDON 2 ; so with 30 years experience felt I had something to offer in joining the society .
I feel that if a referee cannot explain his actions or defend himself from accusations at a hearing ..then why offer it to players who are sent off ?


  1. Robert Burns's Avatar
    I gather this wasn't supposed to be a blog. without knowing both sides it will be hard to accurately depict whats happened. You don't mention anything of concern, but I don't believe I've ever heard a society terminate a referees registration for being annoying or arrogant. normally, as I understand, it is for issues that have tried to be fixed, but all attempts have failed. i.e continuing safety concerns in games, multiple complaints of a serious enough nature to warrant such action. that you would not have reasons explained also sounds strange, but I again will not criticise the side that has no right of reply here. if what you say is true then perhaps a discussion with the president, other than that, i don't know what other options you would have.
  2. Andy Evans's Avatar
    Posting the email received from the society would be a start for constructive input. Without it, hearsay.
  3. Robert Burns's Avatar
  4. crammond1964's Avatar
    here is the reply from the society .
    most of the accusations i would like to reply to if given the opportunity ?
    From: Society
    To: Crammond1964
    Subject: Termination of Membership
    Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:04:47 +0100

    I am writing to you to formally confirm the termination of your membership of the London Society of Rugby Football Union Referees. ************, in his capacity as South East Region Manager, has previously informed you of this on an informal basis.

    You have asked for reasons for this. Whilst there is no formal requirement for me to do so, as a matter of courtesy a summary of the reasons is set out below:

    Your communication via email to Regional Managers and other Society Officials has been sometimes patronising and, on a number of occasions, rude.
    Your communication via email to Regional Managers and other Society Officials has been demanding, giving the impression that you believe that the Society should be run for your own exclusive benefit.
    Your availability to referee has been sporadic and you have cried off at short notice on a number of occasions.
    You have demonstrated an unwillingness to commit to travelling within a region to appointments.
    You have not obtained feedback from team captains on cards for a large number of your appointments.
    Where you did obtain feedback on cards, this was not credible.
    You have openly criticised an assessor.
    You have not followed the required procedure following a sending off.
    You have taken private appointments, becoming unavailable for appointment by the Society in order to do so.
    You have indicated that you would be refereeing outside the UK, but have not sought permission to do so.

    This matter is now closed and I will enter into no further correspondence on this.

    General Secretary
    Updated 14-06-13 at 01:06 by Robert Burns (Removed names & email addresses for Privacy & legal reasons.)
  5. crammond1964's Avatar
    Removed as duplicate.
    Updated 14-06-13 at 01:06 by Robert Burns
  6. Browner's Avatar
    This is a shame, i suspect you're a rugby man at heart.
  7. KML1's Avatar
    Cant help but think that putting private correspondence in the public domain wont help in the slightest!
  8. Andy Evans's Avatar
    There's some potential that this blog / exchange of views could degenerate into something which Robbie might have to edit or remove altogether. I'm writing this as a long-retired active referee with London Society but within which I acted as Hon. Dep. Gen. Sec. & Midweek List Manager to name but 2 background roles which qualify me as a (young) "old fart or alickadoo"!
    I doubt that there's any rugby union referees' society in the UK that has a well-tried and clearly documented process for dealing with problems - I don't see anything online for those that I have been a member (Hampshire, Manchester & London) - so we're into territory which will be undoubtedly dominated and coloured by individual society officers' personalities.
    Long story cut short, it's a litigious world we now live in and society officers have increasingly to be aware of more than just ensuring that a referees are not refereeing above their prescribed grade.
    KML's comment about private correspondence is correct ..... but there are 2 sides to every coin and airing some dirty linen sometimes means progress ie openness vs hearsay. I sense a few society officers are already aware that their rules etc will need to be redrafted & be unambiguous, but without a firm steer from above (does the RFU Referees Department deal only with L4 & above these days?) then some things will remain truly "amateur".
  9. Blackberry's Avatar
    If both parties are able to be open handed and positive and trust in each other's potential, a normal solution is to agree a plan of action. For example the referee agrees to officiate in an agreed number of matches, to obtain cards at these matches, and the society undertakes to provide an agreed degree of mentoring, training and feedback. Now both parties know exactly what is expected of them, clear targets which sidestep any personality issues on either side. Then each party can clearly demonstrate compliance, and hopefully a positive and long lasting relationship will ensue. London and Neilatnototc, would this be acceptable to you?
  10. crammond1964's Avatar
    sadly there is no private correspondence as society have not allowed that window to open ! Hence I have asked on this site as I thought common sense might prevail ? I was interested if there was a hearing process similar to players .
  11. crammond1964's Avatar
    im happy to talk to society unfortunately their mentoring was virtually non existent . . Perhaps the issue being that being a london 2 coach did not help at refs meetings as wearing both caps provides "politics" .
    I reffed nearly every saturday of the season so my open rant is to those who do listen .
  12. crammond1964's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by KML1
    Cant help but think that putting private correspondence in the public domain wont help in the slightest!
    sorry ; having attempted to contact society on at least ac dozen occasions and yet to field a proper reply ;my options were then turned to a referees site ! And most of the advice I have received has been very positive . My main concern is that it will/has happened to other referees and that is an issue ; one cannot keep hiding things under a carpet !

    neil crammond
  13. Robert Burns's Avatar

    I have no issue with you asking for advice on here. However, I will ask that if you wish to post correspondence that you remove the names & email addresses in future. I cannot permit the names & email addresses of people who have not given their written permission to be published here. This is from a site protection point of view.

    The next point is my opinion only.

    I know the people who are in your correspondence, I have known them for a number of years and have never known either of them to act in such a hostile way towards a referee. Due to this I suspect that there has been multiple attempts to address the problems that they listed above, which in their eyes must have failed. We have very experienced members in the forums such as Andy, who also knows the people concerned.

    Whilst I can fully understand your disappointment in being terminated as a referee, I must ask that you either take it up with the Societies parent, in this case the RFU, or accept and move on. What I cannot allow is the site to be used as a conduit for you to air your issues with the Society. One of the reasons has succeeded is due to the formal and informal support of the societies & associations of the world, and their membership, this cannot be affected, and I believe continuing this could affect our relationship with the London Society, with whom I used to also be a member.

    I hope you understand my point of view.