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AR at line out

C

Camquin

Well-known member
Just checking, has the official protocol for an AR/TJ been changed.

I thought the TJ was meant to keep the flag up from when the ball went into touch until the ball has been thrown in correctly, and if the thrower stepped into the field of play keep the flag up.

But Prim and Chump ARs put their flag down as soon as the mark is made.

Did I miss a law change, or is this something else in the manual for professional officials that we amateurs do not have access to?

Second question.

If say red have an attacking lineout, within ten metres of the goal line.
Where would the far side AR usually stand?
 
Re: LO near goal line - I’m coming infield 2-3 steps at the 5m line to make sure the defending backs are onside.
 
Camquin said:
Just checking, has the official protocol for an AR/TJ been changed.

I thought the TJ was meant to keep the flag up from when the ball went into touch until the ball has been thrown in correctly, and if the thrower stepped into the field of play keep the flag up.

But Prim and Chump ARs put their flag down as soon as the mark is made.
Click to expand...

I think this is a newer practice, to visually indicate that the quick throw is not on any more. Possibly more relevant when you have a noisy crowd and the players can't always hear a small "peep" from the ref?
 
Camquin said:
If say red have an attacking lineout, within ten metres of the goal line.
Where would the far side AR usually stand?
Click to expand...
Presumably gola lione to check defenders do not encroach early. CF 10m back otherwise. Same reason, just a different distance - AR is basically standing on the offside line.
 
Rich_NL said:
I think this is a newer practice, to visually indicate that the quick throw is not on any more. Possibly more relevant when you have a noisy crowd and the players can't always hear a small "peep" from the ref?
Click to expand...
On general I think rugby is in a bit of a mess on signalling this. There is not enough consistency, on flags or on whistles

The law says blow the whistle to indicate touch
 
6.26 sets out the instructions to TJ/AR.
I do not think putting the flag down is meant to mean the quick throw is not on.

The AR at the match last weekend did permit a quick throw after he put the flag down.

In fact, 6.26 says that if a quick throw is taken with the wrong ball or after the ball has been touched, the TJ or AR should keep their flag up.
 
So my weekend clubbie TJ, who drops his makeshift flag on the ground to go and retrieve the ball, was ahead of his time? Amazing 😃
 
Camquin said:
6.26 sets out the instructions to TJ/AR.
I do not think putting the flag down is meant to mean the quick throw is not on.

The AR at the match last weekend did permit a quick throw after he put the flag down.

In fact, 6.26 says that if a quick throw is taken with the wrong ball or after the ball has been touched, the TJ or AR should keep their flag up.
Click to expand...

Agree, in law it's not correct, I think it's what's done. But apparently if that's the case, it's not consistent.

crossref said:
On general I think rugby is in a bit of a mess on signalling this. There is not enough consistency, on flags or on whistles

The law says blow the whistle to indicate touch
Click to expand...

The law says the ball is dead when it's in touch, and doesn't give instructions for indicating when the ball is actually dead and needs a set piece restart. Personally, I give a second short whistle; I know some refs don't whistle the first time, when the ball is obviously in touch, and only once the QT is no longer on.
 
There is no penalty for trying to take a quick throw after it is not on.
There is also no penalty for taking the quick throw if it is opposition ball.
In either case, the ref should see that the TJ still has their flag up and whistle to stop the game - and we get on with a line-out.
Which is why the TJ should keep their flag up.
 
for quite a long time the practice was - flag up to show touch (and stays up), second arm remains down as long as the QTI is 'on' and then arm comes up to signal lineout. that seemed to work pretty well -- but I notice it seems to have fallen out of fashion.
 
Camquin said:
There is no penalty for trying to take a quick throw after it is not on.
There is also no penalty for taking the quick throw if it is opposition ball.
In either case, the ref should see that the TJ still has their flag up and whistle to stop the game - and we get on with a line-out.
Which is why the TJ should keep their flag up.
Click to expand...
True.

There's also no advantage to letting people play on if you're going to call it back anyway, and it avoids any potential flashpoints - the thrower complaining that there's an opponent blocking him in the 5m channel, the opponents trying to stop the throw, confusion about whether the game's on or not leading to someone getting unexpectedly nailed by a hard tackle, etc...
 
Just checking that no one on here would consider standing close to the 22, checking the attacking side was onside?
 
Camquin said:
Just checking that no one on here would consider standing close to the 22, checking the attacking side was onside?
Click to expand...
No, I wouldn't. Not just for offside, but also because if the ref is going to need any decision support, it is most likely to be in-goal.
Even for defensive lineout, I'd be inclined to get to the try line quckish once ball is thrown. You're going to be in best position to adjudicate a charged down clearing kick.

[Casual & unrelated thought: as goal line is now try line, should the area between try line & DBL now be called "in-try area"?]
 
Last edited:
Camquin said:
Just checking, has the official protocol for an AR/TJ been changed.

I thought the TJ was meant to keep the flag up from when the ball went into touch until the ball has been thrown in correctly, and if the thrower stepped into the field of play keep the flag up.

But Prim and Chump ARs put their flag down as soon as the mark is made.

Did I miss a law change, or is this something else in the manual for professional officials that we amateurs do not have access to?

Second question.

If say red have an attacking lineout, within ten metres of the goal line.
Where would the far side AR usually stand?
Click to expand...
I do not stand on the goal line as you cannot see anything along the line past the post protectors. I will generally come about level with the lineoutish as I can see the goal line and defenders feet and am better placed to move to see attack (offside from LO - never happens) or more likely forward pass or onside/offside from cross field kick.

In terms of flag up etc. I’ll stick my arm up and put other one horizontal when QT is no longer an option. I don’t stand like that through the throw however, after a few seconds I’ll stand next to the hooker and manage 2+2 for other “hooker” and across the line offences eg throwing across, obstruction, contact in the air plus the usual knock ons, not 5m etc.
 
If you have put the flag down and the hooker steps into play - what do you do?
Which is about as common as a squint feed at a scrum or a nine being offside at a ruck once their side had won the ball.
 
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