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Eliminating the place kick?

J

jeremy

Member
Has this been discussed here in the past?

What would be the consequences - in particular at elite level - of eliminating the place kick and requiring dropkicks instead?
Would the (in my view inevitable) rebalancing of tactics and risk in attack and defence be a net gain to the game, or a detriment?

What about at lower levels?
 
jeremy said:
Has this been discussed here in the past?

What would be the consequences - in particular at elite level - of eliminating the place kick and requiring dropkicks instead?
Would the (in my view inevitable) rebalancing of tactics and risk in attack and defence be a net gain to the game, or a detriment?

What about at lower levels?
Click to expand...
If it's perceived the DKs are less likely to be successful over PKs my guess would be more cheating.
 
From penalties:
- Probably more offending, unless balanced by a lower threshold for cards as a result
- A change in judged advantage as play approaches the try line - less of a "3 points minimum" rule depending on the position.
From conversions:
- slightly more emphasis on scoring in the middle, perhaps a return to more forward-heavy pick-and-gos. Maybe less emphasis on cross-kicks wide and rolling mauls from the lineout.
Although I think the try will still be the main aim, regardless of whether you get a point less on average out wide.
I'd expect more effect at lower levels as the difference between L10 and L5 dropkicks is huge.
 
Marc Wakeham said:
What would be the aim of such a change? That is the first question you need to ask. Aim then consequence.
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I'd imagine it would be to speed up the game as per 7s.
The place kick for restarts disappeared a number of years ago. This may be the next logical stage
 
agree with Dickie's suggestion, but frankly if WRE want to speed the game up there are other areas they could look at that would achieve that as well if not better... water carriers, scrum reset times (yes I know in theory it is but...), 5 second UIOLI cold be eg 3 second. After all, a stop clock for kicks and DGs instead of PKs/conversions wont make much difference inba game with no tries and few kickable goals.,
 
I know I'll be in a minority of 1, but I'd like to see rugby do away with goal posts altogether with tries being the only score.

Infringing in your own 22 to be dealt with with an automatic 5 minute sin bin for miscreant
 
Dickie E said:
I know I'll be in a minority of 1, but I'd like to see rugby do away with goal posts altogether with tries being the only score.

Infringing in your own 22 to be dealt with with an automatic 5 minute sin bin for miscreant
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own half I'd say. Even possibly "inside" the oppo 10m line as 60m kicks arent unusual - at least at international level
 
jeremy said:
Has this been discussed here in the past?

What would be the consequences - in particular at elite level - of eliminating the place kick and requiring dropkicks instead?
Would the (in my view inevitable) rebalancing of tactics and risk in attack and defence be a net gain to the game, or a detriment?

What about at lower levels?
Click to expand...
What do you see being the significant focus that would rebalance tactics?

Kick or drop kick is not massively different.

There are many aspects of just applying the laws as written that would improve the game immeasurably we don't need to dilute it any further.
 
Dickie E said:
I know I'll be in a minority of 1, but I'd like to see rugby do away with goal posts altogether with tries being the only score.

Infringing in your own 22 to be dealt with with an automatic 5 minute sin bin for miscreant
Click to expand...
But that would then be a different game.

Historically there were no points for a try it was a try at goal and the points were scored for a goal.

We have already lost far too much of the game's unique facets due to unnecessary tinkering why do we need any more?
 
At the top level, drop kicks seem to go over 50 metres with reasonable accuracy - though I do wonder how many are actually punts.
Except for South Africa, who cannot drop kick more than ten metres.
 
BikingBud said:
Historically there were no points for a try it was a try at goal and the points were scored for a goal.
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Yes and that emphasises my point. Over the years the game has gradually and by intent moved away from goal kicking and towards try scoring.
Anyone remember when a penalty goal & a try were worth the same number of points?
 
Perhaps you could review the last RWC and clarify that emphasis?

NZ (1T + 2PG) 11 pts v SA - (4PG) 12 pts
Eng (4PG +1DG) 15 pts v SA (1G + 3PG) 16 pts
Fra (2G+1T+3PG) 28 pts v SA (3G+1T+1PG) 29 pts

The top points scorers were within the teams that advanced to the knock out stages and where kickers predominate - Will Jordan 8 tries is only 10th on the list. OF no tries got 75 pts topped the list.

Or perhaps 2003:

Aus (1T+4PG) 17pts v Eng (1T+4PG+1DG) 20 pts:love: - might not have come to that if butter finger Kay had kept hold rather than dropping over the line.

Or 1999

When de Beer scored 34 pts with 2 conversion, 5DG and 5PG

I would suggest that kicking points has always and always will be important that doesn't mean I like it as we all like to see the champagne flowing but it is a skill that is intrinsic to the game. Removing it leads us to having more cloned players, large lumps who might be able to lift 200KG+ in the gym but cannot sustain 80 mins of cardio effort, who have no skill and little finesse.

Personally I do not want rugby morphing into an American Football, with 2 teams, one each for attack and defence, as well a specialist kicker and kick returns and a game that lasts 4 hours.

We should do everything we can to retain its quirks and niche skills, continue to celebrate the contribution of all players for the skill and abilities they bring to the game and most importantly ensure we retain true competition, by not eradicating the jeopardy that comes with skill or execution failure by downplaying them as immaterial. Those failures come after pressure. Pressure that has been built over a weaker of less fit side. Pressure that changes throughout the game so that those with superior fitness can prevail later in the game despite the apparent imbalance and early dominance due to size and strength.

But that genie is well and truly out of the bottle
 
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Camquin said:
At the top level, drop kicks seem to go over 50 metres with reasonable accuracy - though I do wonder how many are actually punts.
Except for South Africa, who cannot drop kick more than ten metres.
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I mean even Zinn Zan smashed one over from 50 metres just to take the piss v England in 1995😭
 
In the professional game, I'm not sure speeding up the game is the main priority now. Having watched several Northampton Saints games this season, the average number of points per game scored in the Prem is just under 67 so entertainment isn't lacking. That said, what is particularly noticeable is how much the volume of subs/replacements in the second half of the game slows it down when compared to the first half and I think this is an area which should be looked at.
 
Camquin said:
At the top level, drop kicks seem to go over 50 metres with reasonable accuracy - though I do wonder how many are actually punts.
Except for South Africa, who cannot drop kick more than ten metres.
Click to expand...
*jannie De Beer has enetered the chat
 
Camquin said:
At the top level, drop kicks seem to go over 50 metres with reasonable accuracy - though I do wonder how many are actually punts.
Except for South Africa, who cannot drop kick more than ten metres.
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with the fine and notable exception of Francois Steyn!

 
Jz558 said:
In the professional game, I'm not sure speeding up the game is the main priority now. Having watched several Northampton Saints games this season, the average number of points per game scored in the Prem is just under 67 so entertainment isn't lacking. That said, what is particularly noticeable is how much the volume of subs/replacements in the second half of the game slows it down when compared to the first half and I think this is an area which should be looked at.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just the Darwin effect, having big lummoxes worked for a while, some followed and others evolved and gained supremacy through speed. The slow lumbering teams lost games, leagues position, status and fans.

Once all the cats get swifter then the life on the pitch will change again.
 
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