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England v Wales - 2 x YCs, followed by an immediate PK...

didds

Resident Club Coach
1st half, white are pressing hard constantly.
Red have conceded several PKs in quick succession for various different reasons

Ref finally warns red skipper enough is enough etc.

Almost immediately - 16:31 minute now - another PK and he YCs the loose head. Early drive at scrum.
Then straight away on game restart another PK - 17:05 - and he YCs the hooker. Offside/collapsing maul/neck roll (take your pick)

We rarely see double YCs like this - eg post warning the 2nd offence rarely sees a 2nd YC. Its a personal bugbear
With red down to 13, white claim a scrum at the 2nd YC PK, to force red's hand wrt FR replacements etc.

On come 2 replacements, the bench LH and hooker

At that very scrum, white are awarded a PK - 17:49 - for what looks like a loose head collapse and white score out wide while advantage is played.

Despite however that scrum PK com ng in very quick succession to the previous two, and following the team warning, there is no YC.

Im interested in the hive mind's thoughts on this.

the ref has shown he is prepared to have more than 1 in the bin, so did he not 3rd YC red because.,..

1) he just didn't want a 3rd YC leaving red with 12 for 9+ minutes
2) the scrum collapse was seen as not a repeated PK (despite previous scrum penalties in the lead up, and the loosehead's YC
3) he would have pinged the replacement loosehead and now the scrums would have gone uncontested with both loose heads in the sin bin and he thought that was actually more unfair on white and would sort of benefit red more
4) he forgot, in the business of dealing with the white try
5) he let it slide with white scoring - but then had they not scored would he have YCd ?
6) something else?
7) perm any of the above?

thoughts?


I've no easy link for the match but for those in the UK/on a vpn it is available in full on ITVX watch again thingamabob.
 
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My assumption is 5. A yellow card is often let slide if the opposition score in the advantage.

It's also possible that he didn't see the penalty as foul play, but a technical penalty - and didn't want to card for 'repeated cynical offences in the red zone' as he didn't consider it to be that.

I thought he was refreshingly strict, and applied the same logic to England later in the game.
 
My assumption is 5. A yellow card is often let slide if the opposition score in the advantage.

It's also possible that he didn't see the penalty as foul play, but a technical penalty - and didn't want to card for 'repeated cynical offences in the red zone' as he didn't consider it to be that.

I thought he was refreshingly strict, and applied the same logic to England later in the game.
well, early engage for the 1st YC was a technical offense and (probably!) not cynical, and the scrum collapse was a 5m scrum so QED in the red zone....
 
Under 9.9 & 9.10 , can't you only YC for
a) a team commitng the same offence
b) a player commiting multiple offesnces

Not c) a team commitng multiple offences?
 
Under 9.9 & 9.10 , can't you only YC for
a) a team commitng the same offence
b) a player commiting multiple offesnces

Not c) a team commitng multiple offences?

If the offence is 9.7.a, cynical offending (such as red zone offences to prevent a try), you're covered :)
 
Under 9.9 & 9.10 , can't you only YC for
a) a team commitng the same offence
b) a player commiting multiple offesnces

Not c) a team commitng multiple offences?
so would you say the referee has to make any warnings to a skipper specific to all offenses (s)he is looking for but not others? Because I cant honestly say I have ever heard such - such chats tend to be of the "too many penalties in this area, I'm running out of options" type.

eg never of the "too many off feet at ruck around here and Im running out of options, but you are OK with offsides, technical scrum offences and obstruction"
 
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After Itoje was carded (providing a rare moment of levity in an otherwise grim affair - evidently Jamie George, after asking for time to pass the ref's warning on to his players, neglected to inform the new subs) - in one of the subsequent rucks leading up to the Wales try the England 6 is lying at the bottom of the ruck clawing at the ball as the Wales 9 plays it away.

1770838093342.png

From his position it's quite possible the ref's view was blocked - but would he have been justified issuing a second England yellow had he seen it?
(Not that it would have made much difference...)
 
8) Ref gave 1st YC for repeated infringements, 2nd YC for Dangerous play worthy of a YC on its own, and did not give a 3rd YC because the repeated infringements count was reset?
 
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