I saw this and my initial reaction was that it was a deliberate knock forward by the scorer so the try shouldnt be allowed but the definitions clearly say that knock forwards are allowed providing the ball doesn't touch the ground or another player. That being the case, and given that throwing the ball forward is specifically precluded, could a player carrying a ball legally knock it forward with their hand providing it doesn't hit the ground etc etc? For clarity that would mean releasing the ball before 'batting' it forward with the hand as opposed to holding the ball and throwing it forward. Am I missing a law which would make this subject to sanction?
Munster Try
- Thread starter Jz558
- Start date
Rich_NL
Well-known member
I think if it's a case of bringing the ball under control as it is here, it's OK - just as a defender intercepting a pass can knock the ball up and forward as long as they regather it.
I think it's different if you're already in possession of the ball, intentionally slapping the ball past the defenders and regathering, although there's no specific law against it. ((Edit: of course there is, 11.3)) You could argue you're passing (/playing) it forward (and regathering it yourself)?
I think it's different if you're already in possession of the ball, intentionally slapping the ball past the defenders and regathering, although there's no specific law against it. ((Edit: of course there is, 11.3)) You could argue you're passing (/playing) it forward (and regathering it yourself)?
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Ciaran Trainor
Referees in England
I agree, deliberate knock forward to beat a defender. I always thought you couldn't knock the ball over a defender and carry on even if you were "trying to catch it"
Clearly the current laws as written do not see that as an offence but i wonder if they ever did?. That has always been my interpretation
Rich_NL
Well-known member
Except in the act of trying to catch the ball (11.4)
Yes it's well established that a player who is juggling can be tackled
I thought it was an interesting scenario in so much as it looked to me like a deliberate nudge past the defender rather than an attempt to catch or bring the ball under control, possibly thinking also that he couldnt be tackled as he was in the air. Clever play and I suspect if I see it at the weekend it would be easier to sell as legal rather than the other way.
11.4 is not relevant here.
didds
Resident Club Coach
why not?
remove the defender from that equation, with the same action, and why wouldn't that be bringing the ball under control?
11.4 refers specifically to an action that results in a knock on and whether it's intentional or not.
Volun-selected
Referees in America
I can’t see the video, but isn’t the crux “was the player attempting to catch the ball or deliberately knocking it past a defender?”
If you’re trying to catch, knock it forward, but manage to regather it before it hits another player or the ground … 11.4 and play on.
If you deliberately (in the opinion of the ref) knock the ball forward to get past a defender or whatever … 11.3 PK.
If you’re trying to catch, knock it forward, but manage to regather it before it hits another player or the ground … 11.4 and play on.
If you deliberately (in the opinion of the ref) knock the ball forward to get past a defender or whatever … 11.3 PK.
For me it's the latter .
Rich_NL
Well-known member
So it's intentional if he regathers the ball and unintentional if he fails to? Retroactive intent?
"Are you flirting with me?"
"Depends on whether or not you're interested"
I didn't write the law....I'm just quoting it.So it's intentional if he regathers the ball and unintentional if he fails to? Retroactive intent?
"Are you flirting with me?"
"Depends on whether or not you're interested"
"Intentional" is the word written in the law book.
