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Reduced Numbers in Scrums

thepercy

thepercy


Referees in America
19.6All players in the three front-row positions and the two lock positions must be suitably trained for these positions. If a team cannot field such suitably trained players for whatever reason, then the referee must order uncontested scrums. Uncontested scrums as a result of a sending off, yellow card or injury must be played with eight players per side.

a. In an eight-person scrum, the formation must be 3-4-1, with the single player (normally the number eight) shoving on the two locks. The locks must pack with their heads on either side of the hooker.

b. When a team is reduced to fewer than 15 for any reason, the number of players in each team in the scrum must be similarly reduced.

c. Where a permitted reduction is made in the scrum by one team, the other team must reduce their scrum accordingly, down to a minimum of five.

d. Where there is an incomplete scrum, it must be formed as follows:

i. Seven players – three-four formation (i.e. no number eight).

ii. Six players – three-two-one formation (i.e. no flankers).

iii. Five players – three-two formation (i.e. no flankers or number eight).
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Red v White.

Red # 8 YC sent to bin.

White scrum. White want to have 8 players in the scrum. Does Red need to make one of their backs play in the scrum to make 8v8? Or do they not have this option and must play the scrum 7v7?
 
In my neck of the woods if a team is reduced to 7 forwards for a card etc then the opposition must drop a player to match numbers and there will be no number 8.
 
thepercy said:
Red v White.

Red # 8 YC sent to bin.

White scrum. White want to have 8 players in the scrum. Does Red need to make one of their backs play in the scrum to make 8v8? Or do they not have this option and must play the scrum 7v7?
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as this is age group rugby it will depend on your NGBs AG laws. there's no global laws necessarily for AG rugby. Other than no NGB AG law = normal global WR laws
 
smeagol said:
19.6b says Red must drop to 7 in the scrum.
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Isn’t that for where you have a smaller squad or multiple injuries?

For cards and such, the teams maintain 8 in the scrum. If they can’t provide a suitably trained Front Row then it goes uncontested for safety - but if due to a card then that team has to swap out one of their backs. If you have 2 front row players carded at the same time, then it’s 15 vs 13 on the pitch but still 8 vs. 8 at the scrum.
 
Uncontested scrums as a result of a sending off, yellow card or injury must be played with eight players per side.

I think it's clear what happens in uncontested scrums.

Just unsure if scrums remain contested.

I think/thought both teams should scrum 7 v 7 no matter which team had the put in, the coaches both thought the team putting the ball in, got to decide, and we agreed to that before the match, but in hindsight I'm not sure that was right. I'm trying to get a consensus view so I can advise the referees in my society, I'm President now, so we have a consistent approach.
 
Volun-selected said:
Isn’t that for where you have a smaller squad or multiple injuries?

For cards and such, the teams maintain 8 in the scrum. If they can’t provide a suitably trained Front Row then it goes uncontested for safety - but if due to a card then that team has to swap out one of their backs. If you have 2 front row players carded at the same time, then it’s 15 vs 13 on the pitch but still 8 vs. 8 at the scrum.
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To be clear - the law section posted in the OP is from U19 variations - at that level, numbers in the scrum must match, zero exceptions.

If it goes uncontested due to lack of STE players, it must be 8v8.
 
Going back to OP's example - red 8 sent to bin.

If Red has a back who can play #8, then it's 8v8. If they do not, then the white 8 must go to the back line and it's 7v7.
 
General convention is that a forward went off so play 7 v 7

If you let red choose it can all get very complicated (can they choose different at every scrum, if they later sub a player off can they change formation, if there is an injury can they change)

Keep it simple : forward got a YC so now it's 7v7 until the YC is over
 
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