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Ref using low resolution stadium screen for clutch decision

S

shebeen

Active member
The TMO is paid to do a job...why not let him do his job?

Happy to use this an example as it probably didn't affect outcome of match result(edit *) and because the try scorer deserved it for the effort put it.

Sharks vs Stormers URC
(hopefully not geoblocked)

*Terrible lack of urgency from Blue15(23) with ball touch in goal.
*gets hand on ball first
*Black 11 running in dives puts clear downward pressure on ball on ground

First thing the TMO says: "you've blown the whistle before it is grounded".
Ref says, "no I haven't just tell me try/no try"

1769887879926.png

*Blue23 probably puts slight downward pressure on ball, VERY DEBATABLE
*after first angle Ref calls his decision as try.
*2nd angle comes in, it's really close
*(not that it means anything, but) commentators using HD screens saw it as a close escape

You can probably argue this one either way, (a smart ball would give us the correct answer) but looking at it with the benefit of 1080p I feel the ref got it wrong, but it is close.

**************************************
My main problem here is that the ref decides to ask the TMO "try/no try", then doesn't even have a discussion with the TMO who clearly has better equipment to make the decision.
You'll see he doesn't consult either AR, who just look at each other when the decision is made.


*changed my mind on this, 10minutes to go STO still in bonus point range, this is a huge call actually.
**STO23 deserves all the social media storm coming his way.
 
aside from the TMO and screens thing, Id say that a very brave call to say that blue hadn't provided downward pressure before black arrived. Im assuming for these purposes that the ball was rolling around in goal when blue arrived ie blue wasnt carrying it and put it down (where downward pressure is not required)
 
Looks to me as though Black missed the ball and instead pushed Blue's arm away from the ball.
 
Ciaran Trainor said:
try for me
Click to expand...
So you're saying that it's C&O Blue had both hands on the ball and no downward pressure on the ball? And easy enough to see that without consulting the TMO - that's my real query here.

didds said:
aside from the TMO and screens thing, Id say that a very brave call to say that blue hadn't provided downward pressure before black arrived. Im assuming for these purposes that the ball was rolling around in goal when blue arrived ie blue wasnt carrying it and put it down (where downward pressure is not required)
Click to expand...
correct, ball was rolling around so downward pressure is required from blue.
 
shebeen said:
So you're saying that it's C&O Blue had both hands on the ball and no downward pressure on the ball? And easy enough to see that without consulting the TMO - that's my real query here.
Click to expand...
I'd say yes. The ref was reasonably close to the incident and in his mind a try had been scored but wanted to check his thoughts. The replay for me backs that up.
 
For me the decision is balanced on a knife edge and could go either way .... Which is exactly what we have a referee for - to make those calls.
Totally happy with his decision, but I would have been equally happy had he called it the other way
 
Try for me. The defenders action is all about picking up the ball but no visible downward pressure.


I have no problem with a senior ref confirming the facts for themselves when they see a replay but I am not sure what the protocol for that is.
 
having seen the video from the angle provided in that YT video i dont see an attacker with downward pressure (Id agree nolw the defender doesnt either), rather him knocking the defender's arm.

obvs other disagree. I can ponly7 sopmewhat presume their were other angles availabgle not shown - the still doesnt show an attackers touching the ball.
 
tim White said:
Try for me. The defenders action is all about picking up the ball but no visible downward pressure.


I have no problem with a senior ref confirming the facts for themselves when they see a replay but I am not sure what the protocol for that is.
Click to expand...
I started this thread more as an example of why surely the guy in the hut with his UHD screens should have more of a say. but we seem to be stuck on this incident, he only looked at one angle if the tv feed is in sync with the audio. It was a close call, actually send it to the guy with the equipment.

For the record, I know it's not what you meant, but quite a new ref, this was his 11th pro game and probably his biggest ever.

Christopher Allison Rugby Referee Profile | Career Stats & Match Summary | Rugby Database

View Christopher Allison’s full rugby refereeing profile — including clubs officiated, career overview and totals across provincial, professional and representative levels on Rugby Database.
www.rugbydatabase.co.uk www.rugbydatabase.co.uk

In contrast to the playing XV being back to back World Champs, the ref stocks in RSA are not that deep currently.
 
didds said:
having seen the video from the angle provided in that YT video i dont see an attacker with downward pressure (Id agree nolw the defender doesnt either), rather him knocking the defender's arm.

obvs other disagree. I can ponly7 sopmewhat presume their were other angles availabgle not shown - the still doesnt show an attackers touching the ball.
Click to expand...
That's what I see too
 
didds said:
having seen the video from the angle provided in that YT video i dont see an attacker with downward pressure (Id agree nolw the defender doesnt either), rather him knocking the defender's arm.

obvs other disagree. I can ponly7 sopmewhat presume their were other angles availabgle not shown - the still doesnt show an attackers touching the ball.
Click to expand...

I disagree, to me it's clear that his wrist/forearm are impeded by contact with the ball and provide downward pressure.

I'd give the try; blue has all the time to indicate if he wants to ground and he doesn't, black does everything he can in order to and (I believe) does.
 
As I said previously


obvs other disagree. I can only somewhat presume their were other angles available not shown - the still doesnt show an attackers touching the ball.
 
We see this done “properly” in 7s all the time - pick it up, eyeball the nearest attacker, wait to the last moment, dab it down.

With the benefit of the high res angle, for me it’s a try. Defender has fingers on the ball but no pressure so not a touch down, attacker’s arm comes inside the defenders arms so would put pressure down and so a try for me but understand others see differently.

On the day down here on the cattle pastures where it’s just me in the middle, I wouldn’t be able to call who grounded first and would have given a 5m attacking scrum.
 
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