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Straight feed at the scrum / Crocodile Ruck / Taking the kick in front of the mark

C

Camquin

Well-known member
With a new season starting, the French Federation has stated that this season they will actually enforce a straight feed to ensure a fair competition at the scrum.

How many matches do we think this will last?
And if France makes it stick, what happens when the European games start - unless all the nations adopt it.

After the Lions tour, the rugby press is reporting that World Rugby want to get rid of the crocodile ruck.

There is no exemption for the 9 to come in front of the last feet, so they are inevitably offside when they move to position the ball to their liking. So a ref could always penalise them - but have obviously been told by World Rugby to ignore it.

The Welsh windbag has said that the thing that annoyed him, when he was refereeing, was kickers taking the ball in front of the mark and then advancing as they took the kick. Obviously, he forgot he had a whistle.

My personal peeve is hookers standing in the field of play when throwing in. The law book requires the touch judge to keep their flag up, but professional ARs have put their flag down before the line out forms.

And we wonder why the players, and commentators, do not read the law book.
 
* And if France makes it stick, what happens when the European games start - unless all the nations adopt it.

well, presumably European games held in France will include a French team of course, with a non French referee (? ) - and hence presumably that ref wont be under the edict of the FFR ?

* After the Lions tour, the rugby press is reporting that World Rugby want to get rid of the crocodile ruck.
There is no exemption for the 9 to come in front of the last feet, so they are inevitably offside when they move to position the ball to their liking.

Well... (again!) .. presumably the crocodile players will just their feet to roll it backwards to the last player for the SH to address it. Which will slow the process down even more.
Whether we like the croc ruck or not, I fear WR fiddle arsing about with the laws/interpretations to try and prevent it will just lead to unintended consequences (as much because they seem incapable of actually considering what will happen, when they are planning any changes, since 1992 at least). Whilst I agree technically its offside, its is also technically handling in the ruck for SH's to lift the ball from within the ruck rather than the ball be left behind the rear foot. And nobody ever pings that.
 
didds said:
* And if France makes it stick, what happens when the European games start - unless all the nations adopt it.

well, presumably European games held in France will include a French team of course, with a non French referee (? ) - and hence presumably that ref wont be under the edict of the FFR ?

* After the Lions tour, the rugby press is reporting that World Rugby want to get rid of the crocodile ruck.
There is no exemption for the 9 to come in front of the last feet, so they are inevitably offside when they move to position the ball to their liking.

Well... (again!) .. presumably the crocodile players will just their feet to roll it backwards to the last player for the SH to address it. Which will slow the process down even more.
Whether we like the croc ruck or not, I fear WR fiddle arsing about with the laws/interpretations to try and prevent it will just lead to unintended consequences (as much because they seem incapable of actually considering what will happen, when they are planning any changes, since 1992 at least). Whilst I agree technically its offside, its is also technically handling in the ruck for SH's to lift the ball from within the ruck rather than the ball be left behind the rear foot. And nobody ever pings that.
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If the ball isn't used within 5 seconds, turnover; or give it to the team moving forward/with momentum.

I want to see quicker ball, and I want more space midfield. Incentivize teams to compete at the breakdown and kill two birds with one stone
 
SimonSmith said:
If the ball isn't used within 5 seconds, turnover; or give it to the team moving forward/with momentum.
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the ref only calls use it when the ball is at the rear feet. (s)he cannot call it when the ball is somewhere in the crocodile bit because the SH cannot play it becasue the SH would be offisde to do it then. You cant do one with out the other.


I want to see quicker ball, and I want more space midfield. Incentivize teams to compete at the breakdown and kill two birds with one stone
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so allow teams to compete at the breakdown instead of providing the blanket cover for attackers to so easily keep the ball. Hands off, no bridging/stacking/sealing off, hips above shoulder and then let the pushing competition begin. But that ship sailed years/decades ago (199s at least)
 
didds said:
so allow teams to compete at the breakdown instead of providing the blanket cover for attackers to so easily keep the ball. Hands off, no bridging/stacking/sealing off, hips above shoulder and then let the pushing competition begin. But that ship sailed years/decades ago (199s at least)
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The problem with having "fairer" competition at the breakdown is that the team in possession will be less inclined to take ball into contact and we're back to aerial ping pong.
Its a fine balance
 
I obviously meant caterpillar.

There are two posible solutions - either you decide what the 9 is doing is perfectly legal, and rewrite the law book. Or you penalise the players for breaking the laws. This halfway house of accepting players can break some laws just seems nonsensical.

I would also look into ball construction. If you can drop-kick the ball 50 metres and punt it 80 and kick a goal from 60 metres - 70 on the high veldt, why try to run it.

Especially as Northern Hemisphere teams - even the Lions - have terrible handling skills.
 
Camquin said:
The Welsh windbag has said that the thing that annoyed him, when he was refereeing, was kickers taking the ball in front of the mark and then advancing as they took the kick. Obviously, he forgot he had a whistle.
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Perhaps the people who do whistle for such infractions are seen by the selectors as micromanagers and pedants and not suitable for TV rugby? It's quite possible to be good at ones job without agreeing with all of the rules and culture of it.
 
At the top level you would only need to do it once -and then warn kickers; they would soon adapt you, as they do to every referee.

As I have said before, if taking the kick 2 to 5m in front of the mark "makes no difference" then take it 2-5m behind the mark.
 
didds said:
the ref only calls use it when the ball is at the rear feet. (s)he cannot call it when the ball is somewhere in the crocodile bit because the SH cannot play it becasue the SH would be offisde to do it then. You cant do one with out the other.
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Interesting comment Didds. I'm sure there was some clarification (though I can't find it) about the ball being available in the caterpillar or any ruck, and as soon as it is clearly available, not necessarily at the back foot, the ref should call use it. I certainly do and did yesterday with no complaints.
 
didds said:
the ref only calls use it when the ball is at the rear feet. (s)he cannot call it when the ball is somewhere in the crocodile bit because the SH cannot play it becasue the SH would be offisde to do it then. You cant do one with out the other.



so allow teams to compete at the breakdown instead of providing the blanket cover for attackers to so easily keep the ball. Hands off, no bridging/stacking/sealing off, hips above shoulder and then let the pushing competition begin. But that ship sailed years/decades ago (199s at least)
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As soon as the ball is at the initial back foot BEFORE the caterpillar forms I call use it and start the 5 seconds. A few guys join and it is no longer available .... tough.
 
Marc Wakeham said:
As soon as the ball is at the initial back foot BEFORE the caterpillar forms I call use it and start the 5 seconds. A few guys join and it is no longer available .... tough.
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So once you call 'use it', what happens if there's a successful counter ruck?
 
Same here, as soon as the ball is available I will call use it, if they then decide to form a caterpillar that's on them. They still only get 5 secs .

Ive always pulled them on kicking ahead of the mark, one warning and then sanction. Same with where the hooker stands at the lineout, they must stand at the mark, not on his teams side of it.

Its very frustrating to see the Laws of the game be allowed to slip to the point that they are laughing at the officials and then WR come out with the big announcement that they will be clamping down on infringements.
 
Ciaran Trainor said:
Interesting comment Didds. I'm sure there was some clarification (though I can't find it) about the ball being available in the caterpillar or any ruck, and as soon as it is clearly available, not necessarily at the back foot, the ref should call use it. I certainly do and did yesterday with no complaints.
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then you have top accept that the SH wioll have to be offside to play it.

While yes the player with the ball at their feet could detach and pick the ball up. But then the players (ie > 1) behind him/her are now pre-binding before contact. Is that going to be PKd then?
 
didds said:
then you have top accept that the SH wioll have to be offside to play it.

While yes the player with the ball at their feet could detach and pick the ball up. But then the players (ie > 1) behind him/her are now pre-binding before contact. Is that going to be PKd then?
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I'll accept that technicality and manage that Didds. p.s. you're not Chopper in disguise are you;)🤭
 
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