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Thoughts on this try

Can a GLDO be taken unintentionally?
It's a good one

I am not sure the game had restarted ..

If a south African player had gathered the ball intending to take the GLDO would AG have given a PK to Argentina for offside ? No.

So I don't think the game had restarted
 
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I think its a poor decision and not in spirit of the game.
Its like the player who thinks about a QTI, decides against it and tosses ball to hooker.
If player had punted ball, would AG have pinged him for incorrect kick?
I hope WR make a statement on this
 
It's not like punting or passing, because a drop kick is the restart in this situation, and it's pretty intentional - players kick or pass the ball to each other when it's dead, but drop kick? Why?
If all SA offside players remained uninvolved until put onside, I would expect the SA try to be given if they'd gathered it. I think if ARG had been in front of the 5m line the try would not have stood, and SA would have been happy to have the penalty.

At the very least, I don't think SA can feel hard done by.
 
I think it's pretty clear that Kolbe wasn't intending that to be a restart .. he didn't have a single SA player behind the ball.

So the question is : is it possible to restart the game unintentionally?
 
I remember a discussion here before about a player standing on the mark for a PK waiting for his team to get ready before kicking the PK to touch

Absentmindedly he dropped the ball onto his foot and tapped it back into his hands , and continued to the just stand there... And got clattered by the oppo who maintained that the PK had been taken and the game had restarted

It's basically the same question.. can a game be restarted accidentally/ unintentionally
 
crossref said:
I remember a discussion here before about a player standing on the mark for a PK waiting for his team to get ready before kicking the PK to touch

Absentmindedly he dropped the ball onto his foot and tapped it back into his hands , and continued to the just stand there... And got clattered by the oppo who maintained that the PK had been taken and the game had restarted

It's basically the same question.. can a game be restarted accidentally/ unintentionally
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That would open a can of worms. A kick off that's too long or goes into touch. " I didn't mean it I was just practicing "
 
Dickie E said:
I think its a poor decision and not in spirit of the game.
Its like the player who thinks about a QTI, decides against it and tosses ball to hooker.
If player had punted ball, would AG have pinged him for incorrect kick?
I hope WR make a statement on this
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Stand under correction, but this was actually a 22m drop out. He clearly wasn't intending to start play. Smart play by Arg, who probably would have been satisfied with a no try call with justification.

BUT, why even risk this - just pass to your team mate and no issue?

edit:corrected myself by watching the clip again!
 
I watched this last night, afraid to say, I think the try stands. You could tell it was an involentary action but somewhere deep down he should know better. Just chalk it up to one of those things he'll never do again.

@crossref I understand your point about accidental restarting of the fixture but this is pro rugby.

I watched a Top14 match last week where someone caught the ball for a mark. Took two steps to hoof it quickly and then changed their mind. No one reacted but I was supprised the didn't get wrapped up. They had technically started their run up for the FK. Where do you stand with that if that had happened? Blow the whistle and give them a second chance as they had a brain fart moment or turn over scrum for not thinking straight and getting caught out?
 
What if the player had punted the ball, instead of a drop kick? 5 metre scrum for incorrect kick type?
 
At the moment CK made the kick I don't think anyone on the pitch, including the referee considered the ball was live.

If a SA player had caught it, as intended , and continued to stroll back into the in goal in order to take the GLDO there is no way Angus would have blown for offside with a YC for SA and PT to Argentina (which would be entirely appropriate if the ball was live)

But one quick thinking Argentinian player saw the opportunity, I bet he wasn't at all sure that the try would be allowed, but it was certainly worth a go !

After the Argentinian put the ball down Angus basically retrospectively decided that, oh right, the ball was live all along

I am not sure about that
 
You're looking at it from the point of view of empathy with Kolbe. Restarting is not a mental intention of the player with the ball, it is an action that reopens the contest. The Argentinian player saw that a drop kick had been taken, in a situation that that was required to restart, and took positive action accordingly. Under what law or definition can you deny him his try?

Similarly, the ball goes into touch, quick throw is on, the player picks up the ball and lazily chucks it infield to the approaching hooker - a switched-on opponent intercepts it and runs in the try.

Or the option to charge at a free kick, the kicker is probably not concentrating and takes a step, so the opposition can approach.

I don't think "aw come on lads, the poor guy obviously didn't mean it" really flies, especially at test level, and in what other situation do you not reward heads-up, intelligent play? Is it Not in the Spirit of the Game (tm) to capitalise on a lapse of attention to score? If nobody responds, you let the teams settle for the restart/line-out/take the FK, but if the conditions have been met and a team wants to play, I say we play.

After the Argentinian put the ball down Angus basically retrospectively decided that, oh right, the ball was live all along
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Have you never had to take a moment to work out exactly what just happened and what the correct call should be, retrospectively? :) I'm sure he was taken by surprise by it, but it surely has no bearing on the correctness or otherwise of the decision. I agree that it would be good practice to call clearly that the ball is live if you have the wits and reaction time to do so!
 
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Rich_NL said:
Similarly, the ball goes into touch, quick throw is on, the player picks up the ball and lazily chucks it infield to the approaching hooker - a switched-on opponent intercepts it and runs in the try.
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So riddle me this. Player lazily chucks ball to approaching hooker, who catches it 2 metres in field from touchline. Are you going to ping the hooker for preventing the ball travelling 5 metres? If not, why not?
 
As Decorilly pointed out it would have been a brave referee who, in different circumstances, chalked off a South African try on the grounds that Kolbe hadn't meant to restart the game. I can't really blame a referee for being on their toes when in charge of a game involving a Rassie Erasmus side. Its not like he's got a history of innovation is it?.................er hang on.

Seems to me its a brain fart, no different to a defending scrum half not picking up a ball that is touching the try line and is surprised when an onside player rushes round to touch down or the guy in the well shared video who swung a lazy boot at a conversion which was going well wide and short and deflected it over. I dont think the ref had any other option once he worked through the scenario.
 
Dickie E said:
So riddle me this. Player lazily chucks ball to approaching hooker, who catches it 2 metres in field from touchline. Are you going to ping the hooker for preventing the ball travelling 5 metres? If not, why not?
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No, because it's not a situation in which the other team can legally contest the ball, and the hooker is presumably not shaping up to make the contest but ambling over. If the hooker received the ball and tore off down the line to score a try, I'd ping. If the other team tried to challenge him, I'd most likely manage it by blowing up and saying they're not in a position to do so.

And if they were in position and challenged, then at grassroots level like I am I think it would very much depend on the mood and the level of the game, but I'm inclined to say "thrown in, play on". If the player had lazily chucked it to the hooker at 6m in who's suddenly possessed by the divine inspiration known only to front rowers, and who tore off up the field while everyone was wandering about preparing for a lineout, would you pull it back?
 
Rich_NL said:
No, because it's not a situation in which the other team can legally contest the ball, and the hooker is presumably not shaping up to make the contest but ambling over. If the hooker received the ball and tore off down the line to score a try, I'd ping.
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somewhere in these forums there is a video of a hooker doing exactly that and scoring...

I _think_ it was this thread... but the linked YT video no longer exists.

basically IIRC somebody has the ball standing behind the touchline.
the hooker (?) approaches the touchline, walking, and the ball is tossed gently to him - importantly the toss complies with whatever is required for a legal throw in.

The hooker (?) catches it , then runs the final very few metres ands scores.
 
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