didds
Resident Club Coach
exactly.
As opposed to the complete and utter bollocks spouted in the video on #32
Whistle watch - World Rugby production
- Thread starter shebeen
- Start date
As opposed to the complete and utter bollocks spouted in the video on #32
It's pretty sad that the video WR make to explain the Laws basically doesn't seem to know the laws
Volun-selected
Referees in America
I wonder if there is a correlation between how badly worded or phrased a law is with the number of times a new thread comes up about it again and again…
#32 is not a WR production. It is a SA rugby journalist who is clueless.
AFAIK this is still relevant and the "latest" from WR, even if it is branded IRB
Agreed, it's such a complicated definition without being black or white. You have two arms, one moves forward the other back...then what?!
It's not that complex if you speak to the physics of the ball direction at instance of passing.
That's a possible definition of knock on, rather than a throw forward
That video was to demonstrate that a legal pass may lead to the ball travelling forward over the ground.
But it does not discuss the movement of the arms, which is the definition of a throw forward.
When a player throws the ball back over his head, that arguably involves a forward motion of the arms, followed by backward movement of the wrists. So its actually kinda problematic technically.. as by the law as written it arguably IS a throw forward
Rich_NL
Well-known member
Player at speed passes just as they get tackled head-on - ball goes ahead of last player.
Harry
Active member
So do we want to encourage that sort of tackle, or tweak the wording ?
Rich_NL
Well-known member
It's quite common - the ball carrier runs to fix the defender and gets the ball away just before contact (I think that, and passing where the ball crosses a white line on the pitch, are the most common reasons to mistakenly call a forward pass). I don't think it's a more useful formulation than the current one.
It's not a forward pass!
The offence is thrown forward!
If you think only about the throw it is very straightforward black and white one might say. Did the passer throw the ball backwards or forwards?
If you think only about where the ball travels we see all the problems on here.
The video does demonstrate a series of coach killers - players too flat and the passer will always adapt and pass to the player. If the support player over runs the passer has no option other than to throw forward, else it ends on the ground. We were always taught in school to keep your depth.
Comments about velocity of ball again, if it is thrown forward the smart ball can detect that. As humans we cannot perceive that easily and therefore look for other cues, position and motion of hands can be seen and judged relatively easily.
Seeking to adjudicate when a ball crosses a line on the pitch we can not separate what was due to initial velocity, the runner carrying the ball and the final velocity after it has been passed due to the force and direction of throw but we will always try and rationalise it by introducing fudge factors
The offence is thrown forward!
If you think only about the throw it is very straightforward black and white one might say. Did the passer throw the ball backwards or forwards?
If you think only about where the ball travels we see all the problems on here.
The video does demonstrate a series of coach killers - players too flat and the passer will always adapt and pass to the player. If the support player over runs the passer has no option other than to throw forward, else it ends on the ground. We were always taught in school to keep your depth.
Comments about velocity of ball again, if it is thrown forward the smart ball can detect that. As humans we cannot perceive that easily and therefore look for other cues, position and motion of hands can be seen and judged relatively easily.
Seeking to adjudicate when a ball crosses a line on the pitch we can not separate what was due to initial velocity, the runner carrying the ball and the final velocity after it has been passed due to the force and direction of throw but we will always try and rationalise it by introducing fudge factors
didds
Resident Club Coach
at the levels where a smart ball is used.
Not much help with Old Twattbaggians 4th XV v Baaaaahsturdz 3rd XV
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not always straighforward
Example - a player has the ball, and he hands the ball to a team mate who is in front of him. I think we would all blow for a .... well, for a what? for a "forward pass"..
that action is a pass
and it is a forward pass.
but it's NOT a throw, so it's not a throw forward.
so perhaps it's legal?
No we should blow for Thrown Forward - There is no offence called Forward Pass!
If you use the wrong terms you build in the unnecessary confusion.
Shall we go back over all those posts again?
Form the definitions:
Supported by the Laws:
Ergo, if in the action of throwing or passing the ball it travels forward, the offence is THROWN FORWARD
If you use the wrong terms you build in the unnecessary confusion.
Shall we go back over all those posts again?
Form the definitions:
Supported by the Laws:
Ergo, if in the action of throwing or passing the ball it travels forward, the offence is THROWN FORWARD
I reffed them once they all cheat anyway
and as long as they get a gentle amble that justifies them going and drinking excessively they don't care.
Harry
Active member
As an Old Twattbaggian I'm happy that you know we cheat as long as you actually don't see itI reffed them once they all cheat anyway
Well... no.
If in the action of throwing or passing the ball the arms of the player passing the ball move forward, the offence is 'thrown forward'.
No?
Passing the ball forward is an odd case.
Let's say I hold the ball out in front of me, and my team mate (in front of me) reaches back and takes the ball out of my hands
At the moment the ball is taken the ball is stationary (so a smart ball won't notice) and my arms are stationary
I mean I think we would all blow for a forward pass, but it's basically a gap in the laws as written
Let's say I hold the ball out in front of me, and my team mate (in front of me) reaches back and takes the ball out of my hands
At the moment the ball is taken the ball is stationary (so a smart ball won't notice) and my arms are stationary
I mean I think we would all blow for a forward pass, but it's basically a gap in the laws as written
The use of ie might indicate that it is necessary to have the motion of the arms for it to meet the offence. I would not judge it so, more that if the ball is thrown or passed from one player to another player who is further forward then it is Thrown Forward and I feel that would be generally supportable.
Perhaps we need to start again and review all the comments.
I try to apply materiality and advantage in the very broadest terms
