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Thread: Achilles heel of idiots

      
  1. #1

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    Default Achilles heel of idiots

    today i red carded a 18 yr old Saracens Academy prop.
    Idiot. This idiotic act probably means the end of his 'professional' career.
    Ruck, tackler not rolling away, hand out advantage to Saracens.
    leg was sticking out of ruck so prop stamped down on achilles/ heel of leg.

    whistle hard and long.
    "3 in the middle, captain to me please"
    checked player was ok then thru captain i red carded prop with explanation of decision.
    "F@ck off" was the reply from the prop.

    apart from the abuse ... another story... the act of stamping on ankles sticking out of rucks seems to be increasing.
    I hate it.
    i abhor it.
    in adults rugby (at my level) you have guys who are labourers etc who have to go to work on Monday, at this level you have kids (say no more) ... a stamp on the achilles/ ankle could be serious... there aint much cover (with shoulders you have fat and muscle).

    i will continue to red card the idiots.

    The abuse ... he apologised later and the coach begged me not to report it but tough ... report is being drafted.
    I received some very good reviews from a few independent coaches who were watching the match on how i handled the situation.

    Then .. more abuse from the coach. I was running touch in the next Sarries match and the coach gave me running abuse ... his name ... Mark Mapletoft.
    "All these people arnt here to hear your whistle, put it away man", "have you ever played the game?", "are you qualified?", "have you got something against X (the prop)" "prove it, prove that i abused you" etc..
    A few parents/ spectators again said to me that i managed the situation very well.
    When i asked him for his name to report him he told me it was Steve Jones.
    Some of the parents said "oh yeah, Mark Mapeltoft"

    If you are refereeing Saracens this season be aware this man is fast getting a reputation.
    Last edited by ex-lucy; 03-09-06 at 18:09.

  2. #2

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    Sorry to hear about this. It happens in the US as well and our discipinary societies are trying hard to clean it up with mixed results. I would hope the very next ref that encounters this coach has him removed from the playing enclosure and send in a report. Which brings up a question. Is the coach considered a player under the laws and subject to the authority of the ref or is this an administrative manner which would need to be taken care of after the match? Most of the players and more than a few coaches don't know the laws enough so I guess most of us would get away with giving a red card to a coach and having him ejected. I imagine in the UK things are a bit different.

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    Many coaches in the states, especially those funny talking ones from overseas, think they know the laws better than any referee, surprising they never pick up a whistle. Do they reallythink that bitching is going to make us want to listen to us? Do they think it helps their cause on the field.

    Its the ones which keep their mouth shut and ask for a few words at the end of a match, and offer some positive comments along with some constructive criticism, the type which makes you better as a referee, those are the types of coaches I respect.

    ONe thing I learned is that you
    NEVER GIVE A COACH A RED CARD.....

    http://www.usarugby.org/cgi-bin/02/p...ementId=312%20

  4. #4

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    jboulet, i remember you informing us about this (not red carding a coach) before, so i was careful, calm and collected and just noted down his name and some of the things he was saying to me. But what can you do about it at the time. I suppose i could have reported him to the tourno organisers .. but he was one of them ! As TJ, i suppose i could have put my flag in and asked the ref to remove him from the perimeter etc but as a tourno organiser and coach, where would he have gone?
    He actually went and stood under the crossbar/ between the posts and coached his team by uttering advice. Again, i warned the ref about the situation, but he didnt want to do anything about it.
    But, that's another issue, other refs and inconsistencies about being strong.
    I was the only ref to give out cards on the day, 2 red and 2 yellow. One ref said he 'nearly' did card a player for fighting so I asked why he didnt (same team, btw, Sarries) "cos i wasnt sure". Eh, it was either a fight or it wasnt!
    Also, same match i was TJing, i put the flag in for feet on the body/ rucking/ stamping/ whatever .. the ref said "i saw it but i thought it was rucking because the player on the floor was holding the ball in with his feet and deserved it!"
    ummm We are talking about U18s here !
    So Sarries coach came on to the pitch afterwards and said "he came on and brought your attention to one of my players being stamped and you didnt do anything about it and yet he sent off a player for teh same thing. I cant see any diff."
    Ref said "player on the wrong side deserves it!"
    I thought actually it was different. 1 was stamping and 2 was rucking but i would have blown up earlier for player on wrong side and then, if not quick enuf, reversed penalty.
    Diff refs, diff decision ... no wonder coaches get excited.

  5. #5

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    You have no option about red card - it must be reported.

    Likewise on player abuse - report it.

    As for alleged abuse from MM - get independent witnesses and signed statements. If you do, progress it through your Society Chairman - zero tolerance !

    Imagine if MM does the same to an up and coming young referee ? Stop him now.

    Two Premier Clubs I have regular contact with at a senior levels would not tolerate such behaviour from an employee - especially aimed at a match official - and even more so from a supposed role model such as the Academy Coach.

    BTW - ever heard of small man syndrome ! I would have been tempted to gove verbals back or even 'slot' him to be honest - but that is descending to his level.

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    When I say don't red card, I am not saying do not report. No where in the law book does it say use cards on a coach. Cards are for players, disciplinary reports can be for all.

    How I have been coached on this matter, since it has happened to me on a few occassions.

    First when you start to feel a coach is out of line, you address the captain of the side and relate it to his team, captain, your coach's actions are nothing but distracting to your players, maybe you may want to ask him to tone it down. If nothing ceases warn the captain that his coach may be asked to be removed if he doesn't quit the crap. If it still continues, walk up to the coach and request he leaves th eplaying enclosure, and that he will be reported for referee abuse. Mention that failure to oblige will result in a harsher report being filed, therefore harsher sanctions. If he refuses to leave, call both captains over, tell them that you feel your safety is jeopardized by the antics of a raving maniac on one sideline, that you will be taking a seat for five minutes, so that they can amongst themselves have the coach removed. If at the end of five minutes, the coach still refuses to leave th eplaying enclosure, you will abandon the match, and a lengthy report will be filed. Usually the players want to play and will get the coach out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jboulet4648
    When I say don't red card, I am not saying do not report. No where in the law book does it say use cards on a coach. Cards are for players, disciplinary reports can be for all.

    How I have been coached on this matter, since it has happened to me on a few occassions.

    First when you start to feel a coach is out of line, you address the captain of the side and relate it to his team, captain, your coach's actions are nothing but distracting to your players, maybe you may want to ask him to tone it down. If nothing ceases warn the captain that his coach may be asked to be removed if he doesn't quit the crap. If it still continues, walk up to the coach and request he leaves th eplaying enclosure, and that he will be reported for referee abuse. Mention that failure to oblige will result in a harsher report being filed, therefore harsher sanctions. If he refuses to leave, call both captains over, tell them that you feel your safety is jeopardized by the antics of a raving maniac on one sideline, that you will be taking a seat for five minutes, so that they can amongst themselves have the coach removed. If at the end of five minutes, the coach still refuses to leave th eplaying enclosure, you will abandon the match, and a lengthy report will be filed. Usually the players want to play and will get the coach out there.
    Good stuff. thanks. I have always wondered what I would do if things got to then next level. I have had the occassion to call out the Captain and tell his coach to cool it a few times. I have never had to go to the next level. I know that ZinZan (a good friend who is a ref) has tossed out more than one player and a coach or two from the playing enclosure. I was not really sure how to handle it.

  8. #8

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    Steve,

    I agree with Judah, throw the f**king book at the guy. No excuse for the stamping, noe excuse for the abuse. Player goes, and coach goes in front of a board. No tolerance for either.

  9. #9

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    I was TJing yesterday at my local club, no official society appointment. Referee was a level 6 from my society game was level 8.

    One of the spectator didn't agree with one of my calls and call me a f**king blind idiot! Then a pillock. (this is my own club which I am a member of lol)

    Anyway ref came over asked the spectator to be removed, he refused, Ref Sat on a bench out side the playing enclosure and told the team until he is removed game is stopped. Spectator again refused to be removed! So the ref just sat there called me over and I sat with him.

    After about 30 seconds coach of the home team decided we where not going to move so spectator was asked to leave by various officials of the club.

    ten minutes later he was back, ref saw him blew up. Players whats that for sir, specator who was removed is back and he went and sat back on the bench (the ref lol). Suprise suprise spectator didn't come back again!

    What made me laugh was that they spectators was worried about which way I gave a linout to. The home team won all lineouts but 2 all game. When play restarted away team through ball in and home team won the line out.!

    Anyway I think ref would have reported club if it had not been my club. With refereeing on Saturdays I am not seen by the senior side anymore so I know only the old diehards who I used to play with. I help with the junior section so I am know by the comittee. Spectator after the macth accused me of being with the away team!

    Anyway made me laugh but again any young referee or TJ would have found this quite hard to deal with. The spectator was behind the 5m fence but constantly was shouting all the time. I think clubs should be made to have an offical steward one for each side who knows the crowd. He / She can work with the referee and have a quite word.

    Just an idea.

    David

  10. #10

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    all good stuff lads, thanks for your support. I like the process to deal with idiots on the sideline and will copy/ paste this into a doc to take with me to matches. thanks.
    I have sent emails to my soc chairman and disciplinary officer and will follow this up.

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