Article: Law clarification requests

[Robert Burns]

You can view the page at http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php...-requests-info

[wrowe]

Recently I had a bizarre incident. In a 7's scrum the team not putting the ball in went backwards purposely, pulling the attacking team with them which obviously made the ball fly out the back.
Is this legal?

[Browner]

Recently I had a bizarre incident. In a 7's scrum the team not putting the ball in went backwards purposely, pulling the attacking team with them which obviously made the ball fly out the back.
Is this legal?

See Law 20.8(g).

Front row players must not twist or lower their bodies, or pull opponents, or do anything that is likely to collapse the scrum, either when the ball is being thrown in or afterwards.

[Pharginell]

If a player is tackled close to the try line and his torso, arms and ball are all touching the ground, is he allowed to reach forward to score a try in an immediate action while his arms and ball remain in contact with the ground and his torso remains stationary?

[Phil E]

If a player is tackled close to the try line and his torso, arms and ball are all touching the ground, is he allowed to reach forward to score a try in an immediate action while his arms and ball remain in contact with the ground and his torso remains stationary?

If he reaches out and "places" the ball over the line that's fine.

If he pushes the ball along the ground, in a forward direction, that's NOT fine.

[Pharginell]

If he reaches out and "places" the ball over the line that's fine.

If he pushes the ball along the ground, in a forward direction, that's NOT fine.

Rule 15.5 (d) states that in the act of releasing the ball it may not pushed forward. The ball in the scenario I posted however, is not being released. The ball is in fact in the process of being used to score a try. In which case, surely 15.5 (g) comes into play and a reach for the line is made with no release of the ball occurring in the action.
As an example, a player is tackled, slides while held and the ball and his arms are also in contact with ground and his arms are being extended in front of him while he slides, at which point the slide of his body ceases and a split second later the extension of his arms also ceases with the ball on the line.

He has fulfilled 15.5 (g) and has never intended to release the ball, so surely 15.5 (d) is not relevant.

[OB..]

Phil E has explained the standard interpretation of reaching out to score when the player is stationary on the ground.

If the player is sliding along the ground he can just hang on to the ball until he crosses the line..

[Pharginell]

Phil E has explained the standard interpretation of reaching out to score when the player is stationary on the ground.

If the player is sliding along the ground he can just hang on to the ball until he crosses the line..

Cheers Phil E and OB for the replies, however.....

The scenario does not entail the continuation of the slide. The slide terminates a split second before the players extending arms touch the ball on the line. The ball travelling forward on the ground is mentioned in the laws in terms of a tackled player releasing the ball and specifically the act of "pushing" which heavily implies an un-held ball but is not outlawed for a controlled (held) ball reaching out to make contact with the line in the act of scoring a try.

Add to this scenario the possibility of the tackled player sliding in on his back, holding the ball with one hand, arm and ball in contact with the ground and the hand holding the ball closer to the try line than the ball. The very loose term "pushing" cannot be employed here either with the possibility of this being termed "pulling" which is mentioned nowhere. Is there a law that specifically rules out a held ball being in contact with the ground as the reach for the line is carried out, considering it can be achieved with a "pulling" motion? Rule 15.5 (d) is specific to the release of the ball and not the act of try scoring and I cannot find a rule that outlaws a controlled ball being in contact with the ground as it is manoeuvred in a try scoring action.

Does the term "reach" have an official definition somewhere that determines the ball being lifted off the ground, projected forward and then being returned to the ground? I have looked but cannot find it.

Thanks.

[ChrisR]

Are you chopper15?

[OB..]

I'm afraid there is little point in using forensic dissection of the laws. They are simply not written with that approach in mind. If they were, they would look like Statute Law and be incomprehensible to any but expert lawyers.

The standard view is that a player is allowed to reach out with his arm to place the ball, not push it. He is not allowed to move his body forward after any slide has stopped, though he can roll off the ball if it is underneath him, so that he can place it.

It would be helpful to have some indication about your role in the game so we can address your point of view.