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Thread: Penalty faux pas

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSTU View Post
    So, the player can now have a few warm up kicks in before he kicks it (like at golf)?
    Apart from time wasting (unlikely surely) if he wanted a "warm up kick", I don't think the lawbook prevents him having one if he held the ball in his hands, or left it on the floor. Is this really any different?
    Last edited by Taff; 17-11-11 at 01:11.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by ruareftrev91 View Post
    At a recent level 8 league game red were awarded a penalty kick in their own 22. Red 10 went to kick the ball from hand into touch, released the ball then missed it completely doing an 'air shot'. The referee gave a scrum at the mark to green. After much chuckling at the kicking ability of red 10, red coach disagreed with the decision stating "as the ball hadn't been kicked, it was not live thus it should have been re-taken".

    What's the correct decision? Monthly society meeting was split on the outcome.
    The decision was 100% correct (Law 6.A.4 (a) The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match...) but I think you are asking what will be the correct decision next time. I think we need to remind ourselves and others of this difference if we want the respect for referees to remain (return) in rugby. I hope the coach disagreed after the match.

    But to answer your question, in juniors, I would allow the kick to be taken (again), seniors I would allow the kick again (the player has had punishment enough with the embarrassment). If you award the scrum, does being awarded a penalty equate with moving forward? {20.4 (d)} This will determine who throws the ball into the scrum.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    In a general sense this kind of thing could happen at any restart. Ball slips out of hooker's hand as he preparing to throw into lineout, for instance. Where there is no intent to restart incorrectly (ie it is an accident) I would allow the player to take the restart again.

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSTU View Post
    Correct decision, if the coach wants to be pedantic you could say that he played the ball through the mark incorrectly.
    Well, my thought is the ref' giving the scrum is more pedantic than the coach on his remark there.
    If you want to apply the law by the letter, then so be it, but as far as I remember, there's no notion of intent in the law on that matter, so red 10 didn't kick it.

    More importantly, I'd use my first referee coach words: "Manage it!"
    Blow the whistle, tell everyone we're doing that again, properly, and the first round of beer after the game is on red 10...

    Pierre.
    Rule #1: If the law doesn't forbid it, it's allowed.
    Rule #2: If it ain't in the Law Book, don't make it up.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by MattB View Post
    .... If you award the scrum, does being awarded a penalty equate with moving forward? {20.4 (d)} This will determine who throws the ball into the scrum.
    If you decide it's an incorrectly taken kick, the book says it's an opposition scrum at the mark or a kick again.

    Personally I think all 30 players etc would expect you to ask him to take it again.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    I think in a high level competitive game they would expect the scrum. Social rugby, retake yes but not in a high level league game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    If you decide it's an incorrectly taken kick, the book says it's an opposition scrum at the mark or a kick again.

    Personally I think all 30 players etc would expect you to ask him to take it again.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    I'm sure glad I never played when most of you were refereeing. turning the ball over inside the 22 is a HUGE turnover for a grey area especially if it was complete accident. not even close to what our duty is out there to facilitate a match. by whiffing it did not infringe at all. that is a referee call - not an infringement.

    take the piss and re kick.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSTU View Post
    I think in a high level competitive game they would expect the scrum. Social rugby, retake yes but not in a high level league game.
    But where would your cut-off be? If he approached to kick but the ball slipped out of hands - would that be a scrum too?

    If he took the kick 2 metres to the left of the mark - would that be a scrum?

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    The problem is that you lot would be happy for him to take a few practice swings before getting it right and I wouldn't. If he approached the kick and didn't try and kick it then just take it again, the scenario here is that he has started to take the kick and fluff it. I don't see why there should be a reward for the lack of skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    But where would your cut-off be? If he approached to kick but the ball slipped out of hands - would that be a scrum too?

    If he took the kick 2 metres to the left of the mark - would that be a scrum?

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSTU View Post
    The problem is that you lot would be happy for him to take a few practice swings before getting it right and I wouldn't.
    That isn't the problem at all. I've never seen anyone take practice swings and doubt that I ever will.

    The question is this: is it equitable that, having given away a penalty offence, a team then gets the feed at the scrum because the opponent has dropped the ball, slipped over in the mud, etc.?

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