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Thread: Penalty faux pas

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Why not? If the SH takes a quick tap then immediately knocks-on, surely you give the scrum?
    Of course, same as if he takes quick tap, runs 30 metres, then knocks-on.

    There is clearly a difference between cocking things up BEFORE the restart and AFTER the restart and I suspect you're being mischievous in ignoring that.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    How about:

    1. SH approaches scrum to feed the ball and drops it (the ball). Knock on?

    2. fly half approaches 1/2 way to take kick-off and bounces & catches ball. Knock-on or maybe intentional throw forward?

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    .... There is clearly a difference between cocking things up BEFORE the restart and AFTER the restart ...
    Exactly. I've just realised that the scrum is for an "infringement" by the kicking side; what's the infringement if the kicker just misses the ball?

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    what's the infringement if the kicker just misses the ball?
    Incorrectly taken kick.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    I would go with kick again. The game has not restarted as the kick has not been taken.
    I usualy use the same logic when somebody takes a quick one that I haven't seen. (not for repeat offenders)
    Peep, I haven't seen the penalty taken guys so we'll start from the mark. ( I don't want to punish an attempt at positive play because I didn't see it.)
    Having a quick tap taken behind you is different than watching someone miss a kick.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Incorrectly taken kick.
    This is the hinge of the question.

    One position is that the air kick means that kick was taken, and incorrectly.
    The other that as the kick was not effected, it could have been done incorrectly.

    I take the latter.
    OOAA
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Incorrectly taken kick.
    OB, as far as I know, rugby is not golf and swinging your leg at the ball without touching it is not a shot / kick.
    As a dummy forward pass to opposition is not a throw forward or carrying your pint in your right hand is not a buffalo (until you drink)

    Pierre.

    PS: It's indeed different for FK or Conversion charged down...
    Rule #1: If the law doesn't forbid it, it's allowed.
    Rule #2: If it ain't in the Law Book, don't make it up.

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by talbazar View Post
    carrying your pint in your right hand is not a buffalo (until you drink)
    That reminds me of a scene from a long-forgotten TV series:

    Man is sitting in doctor's waiting room with an unlit cigarette in his hand.

    Receptionist : "Sir, you are not allowed to smoke in here"

    Man : "I'm not smoking"

    Receptionist : "But you have a cigarette in your hand"

    Man : "So? I've got shoes on my feet but I'm not walking"

    Name that series!

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    But I would like to ask when thse who would go for te scrum regard the ball as live - is it when the player plays the ball - intentionally touch ... would that be the moment he picks the ball up?
    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    I would go with kick again. The game has not restarted as the kick has not been taken.
    I usualy use the same logic when somebody takes a quick one that I haven't seen. (not for repeat offenders)
    Yet it's rather ironic that with a FK - players can advance (to prevent FK) as soon as the player "starts to approach the kick" ...so "play" starts as soon as they do this.
    So could it stand to reason that with a PK that, although opposition cannot advance until the ball has been kicked, play has essentially commenced as soon as the kicker 'starts to approach the kick' - the exceptions are merely what the opposition may or may not do.

    To me the laws seem to imply that it's 'game on' as soon as the kicker advances to commece the kicking process? (would not "time on" for any stoppages also start too just before the kicker advances ). It seems much simpler to have a single decision point for FK and PK when it's "play" and to me that's when he starts his kick process.
    Of course I can sympathises with age groups with less ability and skill so maybe a retake...but for adult games an airswing is most likely a scrum for mine. I guess I'll wait and see when it happens to me what I'll decide...i'm sure some automatic decision process kicks in and i hope i make a fair call..but probably will depend on how lippy the kicker was to me prior to the airswing!
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Penalty faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    So could it stand to reason that with a PK that, although opposition cannot advance until the ball has been kicked, play has essentially commenced as soon as the kicker 'starts to approach the kick' -
    If the heavy breathers dictated this I could live with it. Maybe there would be a point at each type of restart (scrum, lineout, kick off, etc) where the restarter is committed to getting it right.

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