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Thread: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

      
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    Exclamation Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    I never cease to be amazed at the wonderful situations that occur during junior games where players who may not be experienced in the laws, manage to serve me up a difficult decision.
    This close game of U13 was tied and cith 10 secs to go, there was a Red lineout 5 meters from the Blue line.

    I announced that there were "seconds" to go and that I would blow for full-time when the ball next goes dead.

    The line out was taken and Red ( the attackers ) knock-on. I immedately say and signal (with my arm) advantage to the defending team.
    Then, the blue defender who gets the ball, doesnt kick it out as I expect, he throws it out on purpose with what looked like an attempt to end the game and secure the draw.
    Now, amongst the shouts of "penalty. Deliberate throw into touch" from knowledgeable Dads, I warned the boy that that was illegal and normally I would have given a penalty but were it not for the fact thay his team had advantage from the knock-on. So I said, "No advantage. Would have gone back from the scrum which was awarded AFTER time expired" Hence I blew for full-time. I checked law 8.5 afterwards and seemed to suggest I was right. It mentions that if there is a subsequent infringement, then play goes back for the original infringement.

    But then I thought - that cant be right ! What would I have done if, instead of throwing the ball out deliberately, the boy had committed a more serious penalty offense such as dangerous play ? Surely even when you have advantage, if you do something dangerous, then you would be expected to lose the advantage and be pinged for it ?

    Any advice gratefully received please. ?

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    i'd have been inclined to go as you did, by saying that there had been no advantage and going back to the knock on (i.e. therefore ending the game).

    different if it's foul play of course.
    Hi. I'm Barry Scott.

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    I think you got it right. Especially at this age group. Not really any different for me than the deliberate knock on you do often see when a team don't want their advantage. Different for me if foul play occurs.

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    i think that's right.
    I can think only only foul play or ref abuse that would lose you the advantage.

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    i think that's right. I can think only only foul play or ref abuse that would lose you the advantage.
    But deliberately throwing the ball off the pitch is Foul Play.

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    foul play under law 10? besides deliberately infringing of course...

    ah yes, 10.2c.
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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    In previous discussions along these lines, the general opinion has been that you award the penalty if that offence was worse. In an adult game I would expect the penalty to be awarded. In this particular case it is a difficult judgement call.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    In previous discussions along these lines, the general opinion has been that you award the penalty if that offence was worse. In an adult game I would expect the penalty to be awarded. In this particular case it is a difficult judgement call.
    I think I know what you are saying but it isn't clear. An offside offence is "worse" than a knock-on but a red knock-on followed by a blue offside during the advantage period would result in a blue scrum.

    We need to understand (& apply) the difference between foul play and dangerous play.

    If there is non-dangerous foul play I would disagree with OB.. and go back for the scrum.

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    The knock-on is accidental; the throw into touch is deliberate and something the (adult) player should know is a penalty offence.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The knock-on is accidental; the throw into touch is deliberate and something the (adult) player should know is a penalty offence.
    OK - so which penalty offences trump the knock-on? Off-side, obstruction, repeat infringements, hands in the ruck, those that are deliberate, those that the referee assumes the player should know, foul play, dangerous play, etc?

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