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Thread: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    OK - so which penalty offences trump the knock-on? Off-side, obstruction, repeat infringements, hands in the ruck, those that are deliberate, those that the referee assumes the player should know, foul play, dangerous play, etc?
    It is always going to be a matter of judgement. Why would you expect any other answer?
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  2. #12

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    It is always going to be a matter of judgement. Why would you expect any other answer?
    I disagree. This isn't (nor should it be) a matter for judgement. During a period of advantage the sanction for an offence by Team A always applies unless the 2nd offence by Team B is dangerous play.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Unfortunately, while all your ideas are sensible, they are not to law.

    8.5 MORE THAN ONE INFRINGEMENT

    (a) When there is more than one infringement by the same team:
    • If advantage cannot be applied to the second offence the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the first offence.
    • If advantage is played for the second offence but none accrues, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for the second offence.
    • If either sanction is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that offence.
    (b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement.


    So the sanction for the first offence should apply.
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  4. #14

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Burns View Post
    Unfortunately, while all your ideas are sensible, they are not to law.

    8.5 MORE THAN ONE INFRINGEMENT

    (a) When there is more than one infringement by the same team:
    • If advantage cannot be applied to the second offence the referee applies the appropriate sanction to the first offence.
    • If advantage is played for the second offence but none accrues, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for the second offence.
    • If either sanction is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that offence.
    (b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement.


    So the sanction for the first offence should apply.
    So if Red knock-on, Blue can commit dangerous play with impunity and still get the scrum feed????

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    According to law, yes.

    As I said, I know it's not how we referee, or how we see equity, but it is law.

    (Not saying I agree, but it's pretty clear).
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  6. #16

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Safety and Equity before Law though.

    For me, you were correct to go back to the scrum. I would only have given the penalty for dangerous play.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    But deliberately throwing the ball off the pitch is Foul Play.
    it's only foul play (or intentional offending) if you know it's illegal (IMO). If you don't know (which will be clear) it's just a PK and an explanation.

    I think CTPE made the right call. In an adult game I'd give the PK. But in an adult game it wouldn't happen, cos they know!

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    English U13.. Player who threw the ball out could well be in his first ever season - could even be his first ever game.

    In the circumstances, game over and a word to the coach.

    Older age group; penalty. (Most of the time. Unless the game already had a cricket score or both sides had shown themselves to be generally ignorant of the Law which can be common with many clubs struggling for numbers in junior age groups.)

    (To be brutal, I'd say any ref who gave the penalty in the circumstances unless it was a cup/league game and a score from the penalty could have decided league points or a cup place, would be showing their inexperience. A penalty awarded at that point would most likely come from a new ref who has surprised themselves with noticing a technical penalty offence and knowing that it was a penalty and has then awarded it before thinking "is this the right thing to do"?)

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    Dangerous play

    - if team A knock on
    - and then team B commit an act of dangerous play

    then yes I agree : penalise B


    but I'd also wonder whether the advantage was misconceived in the first place , if B committed an act of dangerous play then evidentally Team A still had the ball, and you have to wonder why advantage was being played in the first place..

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    Default Re: Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

    previous rfu/irb advice at breifings -only dangerous play negates advantage (cue vigorous debate A) "why not intentionally offending particularly if you had warned team/player over it e.g. killing the ball and b) but contrary to good sportsmanship is "dangerous play" in lotg and can be relaatively minor. answers a) tough still no pk- manage it "if i hadn't been playing advantage you might be in the bin . no more etc." or better still blow before they do it b) thats the misconduct bit (???***) or more realistically only really serious such acts.
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