Penalty infringement during advantage. Is advantage over imediately ?

[Robert Burns]

I would like to see that part added to (b) as well.

Would make it much more clear, if you have an advantage, you can lose it by committing foul play.

[ddjamo]

my bad gents...I was skimming...plus in a state of confusion after reading more of cody's gibberish.

[Dickie E]

I would like to see that part added to (b) as well.

Would make it much more clear, if you have an advantage, you can lose it by committing foul play.

I wouldn't like that.

It should be (IMHO):

1. if team A knocks-on then team A commits a penalty offence (eg off-side), then penalty offence takes precedence

2. if team A knocks-on then team B commits dangerous play (as defined in Law 10.4), then dangerous play offence takes precedence

3. in all other cases either advantage is over or come back for team B scrum.

[Robert Burns]

I was going to try and give examples at why this was wrong due to deliberate foul play as stated above, but I'm hit with a fact that you are right because if this were to happen at any other point in the game, we would go back to the original offence unless the non offending team committed dangerous play.

The fact we would do it in every other minute of the game, means we should also do it in the 79/80th minute too.

[CrouchTPEngage]

Dixie,
I am slightly confused by your comments on advantage in this situation.
I've always been under the impression that a good ref avoid's blowing this whistle and seek to play advantage at all times.
Also the defending team could have got possession and got tactical or territorial advantage ( probably kicked it into touch near the half-way would have been good enough for me )

Your comments seemed to suggest that I should have blown-up immediately because there was little chance of them scoring from 95 metres out. ( Actually Chris Ashton's try against Australia springs to mind :-)

I'm not trying to have a go, just genuinely worried that I may have missed an interpretation of "advantage".

[Dixie]

Dixie,
I am slightly confused by your comments on advantage in this situation.
I've always been under the impression that a good ref avoid's blowing this whistle and seek to play advantage at all times.
Also the defending team could have got possession and got tactical or territorial advantage ( probably kicked it into touch near the half-way would have been good enough for me )

Your comments seemed to suggest that I should have blown-up immediately because there was little chance of them scoring from 95 metres out. ( Actually Chris Ashton's try against Australia springs to mind :-)

I'm not trying to have a go, just genuinely worried that I may have missed an interpretation of "advantage".

CTPE, no offence taken.

Advantage must be, as you say, tactical or territorial. You offer a kick to the half way as an example, but actually it's not. If they kick to the half-way you blow for full time; if they kick behind the DBL you blow for full time. In short, the only advantage you can offer them is the score from 95m, and I suspect that if you ask yourself how many times you've seen that happen from a defensive throw inside the 22, you will realise that it's such a remote possibility it's not really worth considering. In playing advantage, you are putting Red at risk. As it's only scrum advantage, it has to be over quite quickly. If they look for that Ashton moment, put in four appsses and get to the 22, advantage is surely over; if they then drop it ... your advantage call has given them the opportunity to lose the game, when you wanted to give them the opportunity to win it. In fact, if they don't just kick it out (surely the most liklely prospect, and equivalent to you blowing up without advantage), the prospects of them losing the game from that position are far higher than the prospects of them winning it. This is "contextual judgement" that plays a big part in reffing at the mid-tier levels and higher. And being contextual, it is entirely subjective!

[Adam]

It's all about playing appropriate advantage, not just playing advantage.

[Davet]

Time up - tied game.

You call advantage for the knock on - unless advantage happens then that's the end of the game.

Unless the offence is a dangerous play offence - and fairly serious - basically a punch, trip, clothesline tackle etc., - worthy of a card - then I would have called no advantage, no time for scrum, no-side.

If it was a card offence then I would issued the card and awarded the penalty.

[Treadmore]

I never cease to be amazed at the wonderful situations that occur during junior games where players who may not be experienced in the laws, manage to serve me up a difficult decision.
This close game of U13 was tied and cith 10 secs to go, there was a Red lineout 5 meters from the Blue line.

I announced that there were "seconds" to go and that I would blow for full-time when the ball next goes dead.

The line out was taken and Red ( the attackers ) knock-on. I immedately say and signal (with my arm) advantage to the defending team.
Then, the blue defender who gets the ball, doesnt kick it out as I expect, he throws it out on purpose with what looked like an attempt to end the game and secure the draw.
Now, amongst the shouts of "penalty. Deliberate throw into touch" from knowledgeable Dads, I warned the boy that that was illegal and normally I would have given a penalty but were it not for the fact thay his team had advantage from the knock-on. So I said, "No advantage. Would have gone back from the scrum which was awarded AFTER time expired" Hence I blew for full-time. I checked law 8.5 afterwards and seemed to suggest I was right. It mentions that if there is a subsequent infringement, then play goes back for the original infringement.

But then I thought - that cant be right ! What would I have done if, instead of throwing the ball out deliberately, the boy had committed a more serious penalty ،offense such as dangerous play ? Surely even when you have advantage, if you do something dangerous, then you would be expected to lose the advantage and be pinged for it ?

Any advice gratefully received please. ?

RFU regs state no extra time for age grade rugby. So I thought that meant you would blow when time was up anyway?

[Adam]

RFU regs state no extra time for age grade rugby. So I thought that meant you would blow when time was up anyway?

It says no extra time, not no injury time. It states playing time, not actual time. If there is a serious injury in the 8th minute of the second half, and the ambulance takes 30 minutes to arrive, there is still 27 minutes left to play when the pitch is cleared.