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Thread: Making the ball dead

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Do we really think the IRB meant something significantly different when using “without delay” or “immediately”? A quick flip through the laws suggests that is feasible, but not that it is necessary.

    Law 20.5 says the scrum half must throw the ball in “without delay”, but listening to Nigel Owens you would think that meant “immediately if not sooner”.

    Sometimes they are definitely NOT alternatives: “The plane of the touchline is the vertical space rising immediately above the touchline.”
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  2. #12

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    It may be that no-one is in a position to make the ball dead immediately it goes in goal, so a defender who does so as soon as it is possible to do so has done so without delay, even if that is not immediate.
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  3. #13

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    It may be that no-one is in a position to make the ball dead immediately it goes in goal, so a defender who does so as soon as it is possible to do so has done so without delay, even if that is not immediate.
    That could be a useful distinction, but it does not apply to all cases where "without delay" is used.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    I agree with Phil. "Without delay" is slightly longer than "immediately".

    In this context "without delay" gives the player the option of picking up the ball, briefly assessing options then making the ball dead.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I agree with Phil. "Without delay" is slightly longer than "immediately".

    In this context "without delay" gives the player the option of picking up the ball, briefly assessing options then making the ball dead.
    With my coaching hat on, I would say that view is sufficiently controversial that it should be coached out of any player. What assessment does he want to make? "Am I better off running this from 112m or having a scrum at 22m"? The answer to that is so obvious that I suggest he should do his thinking on the hoof.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    With my coaching hat on, I would say that view is sufficiently controversial that it should be coached out of any player. What assessment does he want to make? "Am I better off running this from 112m or having a scrum at 22m"? The answer to that is so obvious that I suggest he should do his thinking on the hoof.
    If the obviousness was so obvious, why does the law specifically give the player the option to play on? The law may as well say "if the ball goes into in-goal then the option is scrum or kick again".
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    If the obviousness was so obvious, why does the law specifically give the player the option to play on? The law may as well say "if the ball goes into in-goal then the option is scrum or kick again".
    What if time has expired and his team needs a score?
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    What if time has expired and his team needs a score?
    Indeed
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Indeed
    So if he needs to score rather than have the scrum, what is he thinking about standing under his posts? Shouldn't he be pinning his ears back and running ?
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  10. #20

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    So if he needs to score rather than have the scrum, what is he thinking about standing under his posts? Shouldn't he be pinning his ears back and running ?
    He knows he needs a score, so he looks for his only chance - but then finds there is a rather large number of great hairy men in his way, and opts for safety.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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