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Thread: Knock on into touch - option?

      
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    Default Knock on into touch - option?

    The latest law trial for knock on "straight" into touch, option of scrum at the knock on or lineout where the ball crossed the line. My question: does it matter whether the ball bounced in-play before going into touch? If the ball bounces in play and then goes into touch, do you still provide the options? or is it only if the ball is knocked directly into touch, "on the full"? Does it make any difference how many bounces? when does the ball become playable/"live" again... e.g. if a player is waiting for the ball to go into touch (in order to take a quick throw for example... although this would be unusual, requiring a long knock on).
    thanks.

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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    As far as I understand, the "straight" is to signify it didn't touch anyone after the knock on and going into touch. It has nothing to do with how many bounces....it can dribble or roll into touch and the options are available (it just cant touch anyone on the way there). But happy to stand corrected.
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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    I'm with Menace as above.
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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    Add new 12.1(e)
    Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward. The non-offending team may exercise the former option by taking a quick throw-in.


    Note - doesn't say "directly" into touch, or even "straight" into touch - simply when the ball goes into touch from a KO or TF. So it may bounce, or even roll.

    The option to take the touch rather than the knock on may be exercised by simply taking the QT.

    If it touched another player then that would be either a team mate of knocker-on ie an accidental offside, scrum against KO team if either side gained an advantage OR if no advantage either way play on - so could be the option anyaway - judgement call by ref; or touched by opponent of KO side, menaing the side that KO get the throw in- except that that would be no advantage so we have the KO.
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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post

    If it touched another player then that would be either a team mate of knocker-on ie an accidental offside, scrum against KO team if either side gained an advantage
    I don't think you've written this right. If opponents get an advantage, it is play on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post

    OR if no advantage either way play on - so could be the option anyaway -
    I don't think so. In this (very unlikely) event it is scum only (IMHO)
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    Dickie

    Yes, OK - agreed there ios something awry in what I wrote. What I really wanted to say was: if the ball is knocked on, touches a team mate of the knocker-onner then goes into touch, it is accidental offside. If the opponents are disadvantaged then we get a scrum, if they are not then we play on, which in this case means the ball has been knocked on and gone into touch (after striking a player) - so can you offer the option? Or is it Lineout only? The "scrum only" option only works if we say the accidental offside disadvantaged the opposition. If it didn't it's a Linout only, or possibly the option - but it can't be "scrum only".
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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    I can't see how "knock on -> hits teammate -> rolls into touch" can do anything other than disadvantage the opposition
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    If it was going into touch anyway.... and they had no-one near enough to play it.... how have they been disadvantaged?
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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    If it was going into touch anyway.... and they had no-one near enough to play it.... how have they been disadvantaged?
    Davet, too many ifs in there for me. I'd go back for the scrum for the knock-on.

    I'd also interpret
    When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward
    to mean "without touching or being touched by another player".

    How about this? Centre passes to his winger but the pass is forward. The best the winger can do is get a hand on the ball and knock it backwards into touch. I would give scrum for forward pass - no option.

    And you?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knock on into touch - option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Davet, too many ifs in there for me. I'd go back for the scrum for the knock-on.

    I'd also interpret
    When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward
    to mean "without touching or being touched by another player".

    How about this? Centre passes to his winger but the pass is forward. The best the winger can do is get a hand on the ball and knock it backwards into touch. I would give scrum for forward pass - no option.

    And you?
    Agreed. The ball went into touch from the knock back, not from the forward pass.

    However if the winger knocks it forward into touch, do you go back to a scrum for the forward pass?
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