Where's the offsides line?

[ChrisR]

This is a non-event. I don't see both sides leaving. If it's still contestable then no-one leaves. If it's won the other side may get out but the winning side stays put and we have 5 secs to play it.

[jdeagro]

This is a non-event. I don't see both sides leaving. If it's still contestable then no-one leaves. If it's won the other side may get out but the winning side stays put and we have 5 secs to play it.

My understanding is your saying that my scenario is not something that would realistically occur? Even so, I would still be interested in the answer. But consider this case, where 1 (and only 1) player from each team form a ruck over the ball and fall over (as a result of bad rucking technique, or the "alligator roll" commonly seen now, etc) to the side of where the tackle occur, and then both players roll away and retreat to get in a position for whatever action is going to occur next. In that case there is no more players rucking over where the tackle occurred and the ruck still hasn't ended according to the previously mentioned ruck laws. I think this scenario is a possibility, and then with no players to gauge where the offsides line is for either team, where would one consider the offsides lines to be?

[Guyseep]

The ruck has ended because it has left the ruck. There are no longer players bound over the ball, so its out. Similar to if a player bound at the back of a ruck had the ball at his feet and then unbinds-the ball is out, ruck over.

I don't think offside would be an issue, but the real question would be, are players now allowed to reach in and grab the ball with their hands.

[jdeagro]

I don't think offside would be an issue, but the real question would be, are players now allowed to reach in and grab the ball with their hands.

...And from any side of where the ball is then too eh?

[Davet]

if two players create and contest a ruck and then fall over, leaving the ball freeand clear on the ground then I think any ref penalising a player who stepped in from his own side of the ball and picked it up, for handling in the ruck would have lot of comments to deal with, and would find it hard to persuade people that he wasn't an uber-technical law geek who had zero commonsense.

[tim White]

if two players create and contest a ruck and then fall over, leaving the ball freeand clear on the ground then I think any ref penalising a player who stepped in from his own side of the ball and picked it up, for handling in the ruck would have lot of comments to deal with, and would find it hard to persuade people that he wasn't an uber-technical law geek who had zero commonsense.

That doesn't look wrong -so it must be right.

[Rassie]

That depend upon the size of the gate you want.

Exactly!

[Reindeer Flotilla]

But I'm wondering in regards to if there are no remaining players partaking in the ruck. That is my specific scenario (though perhaps foolish for the attacking team to not have any participating players in the ruck.) Where would the offsides line be then, if there are no hindmost parts of remaining because no players remain?

If there are no players left in the ruck, isn't the ball out, e.g., 100% visible from a bird's-eye view?

[jdeagro]

If there are no players left in the ruck, isn't the ball out, e.g., 100% visible from a bird's-eye view?

That's the general acceptance it seems like, but that's not one of the criteria in the section of the laws that describe when a ruck ends.

[menace]

if two players create and contest a ruck and then fall over, leaving the ball freeand clear on the ground then I think any ref penalising a player who stepped in from his own side of the ball and picked it up, for handling in the ruck would have lot of comments to deal with, and would find it hard to persuade people that he wasn't an uber-technical law geek who had zero commonsense.

That doesn't look wrong -so it must be right.

So what if it was, say 2 from each side contesting the ruck and they all fall over around the ball...the ball is accessible. Will you then allow any of the SH to just reach in and take the ball??

We've been told (from within our association head honchos/coaches/assessors) that the ruck isn't over as the criteria for a ruck ended has not been met, and therefore the SH can't just reach in and grab it. What needs to occur is that bound players are to enter the 'ruck' and ruck past the ball. This effectively means the ruck is won by that side and the SH is free to play the ball? So is that advice totally wrong???