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Thread: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

      
  1. #61

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Scrum stability compliance needs to come first and have higher priority than whether or not the ball is fed straight, that is if the scrum is moving and the SH throws the ball in crooked, the "pushing early" offence is more material than the "crooked feed" offence.
    I absolutely agree. At the reset of the first scrum (9th/10th minute of your trans-Tasman rivalry), Gold again pushed before the ball was in. Black fed. The referee played on, because the scrum was won by the team not offending first.

    I'll have my first game tomorrow.

  2. #62

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    If referees expect the SH to throw the ball in straight, they simply must understand that the scrum must not be moving at the time of the put in.
    That point was heavily emphasized at this evening's training session, led by an RFU Area Training Officer. You don't move from one part to the next unless the first has been satisfactorily completed. Video clips showed the referee whistling and re-starting.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #63
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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Browner

    I have made up this basic animation to graphically illustrate why the referee must ensure that the scrum is stationary when the scrum half throw the ball in.




    The red line is the middle line of the scrum, which will move to the right with the scrum

    The blue line (when it appears) will be that path the ball takes when it is thrown in straight

    As you can see, the moving scrum is all the time pushing the opposing hooker away from the strike zone.

    Same would apply if the grey team were moving forward, they would gain an unfair advantage
    Nice piece of work.... perhaps something has been lost in my written communication, because this point is rather basic and 100%understood. I also agree referees should ensure stable. I've heard many a SH claim that they needed to send it crooked because their pack lost the 'hit' & i'd read AS comments as meaning some kind of justification, apologies if I misread, but the written word sometimes reads different to the reader than the sender....

  4. #64

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    Nice piece of work.... perhaps something has been lost in my written communication, because this point is rather basic and 100%understood. I also agree referees should ensure stable. I've heard many a SH claim that they needed to send it crooked because their pack lost the 'hit' & i'd read AS comments as meaning some kind of justification, apologies if I misread, but the written word sometimes reads different to the reader than the sender....
    Hearing a SH claim this that and the other is hardly a new phenomenon - some may feel this claim should be treated the same as all the others. One is reminded of Peter and the wolf - they never learn.

  5. #65

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Whittaker View Post
    Hearing a SH claim this that and the other is hardly a new phenomenon - some may feel this claim should be treated the same as all the others. One is reminded of Peter and the wolf - they never learn.

    So, what, are you implying that the SH just feed the scrum straight while the referee ignores Law 20.1 (j)?
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  6. #66

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    So, what, are you implying that the SH just feed the scrum straight while the referee ignores Law 20.1 (j)?
    As far as I recall it was the cries of Peter that eventually were ignored - not the presence of the wolf.

  7. #67

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Whittaker View Post
    As far as I recall it was the cries of Peter that eventually were ignored - not the presence of the wolf.
    Too late for Peter though, wasn't it?
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    So, what, are you implying that the SH just feed the scrum straight while the referee ignores Law 20.1 (j)?
    SH has Hobson's choice, his 1st responsibility is to put in straight, after that the referee decides [sometimes wrongly, granted] the alternative is what .....SH doesn't put it in, or puts it in crooked?

  9. #69

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    SH has Hobson's choice, his 1st responsibility is to put in straight, after that the referee decides [sometimes wrongly, granted] the alternative is what .....SH doesn't put it in, or puts it in crooked?
    If the scrum jerks forward after the invitation, I think the scrum half is entitled to look at the referee to know if he still wants the ball thrown in. The referee should, of course, take some action other than insisting on the feed willy-nilly.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  10. #70

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    Default Re: NZ v Aus New Scrum Procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    Nice piece of work.....
    I agree. Very impressive.

    If I was the Grey SH I wouldn't budge. Just stand your ground and if the Black SH still wanted to throw it in, the pivot would ensure that an early shove would disadvantage his own team - which should stop any future fannying around. The only other option is to throw it in crooked.

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