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Thread: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

      
  1. #161

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    ^ penalised for nothing as he has done nothing wrong. But it isn't your job as referee to inform the entire scrum, equally you could say it doesn't matter if you do. But if I had an assessor say to me "you need to call yes 9 so everyone can hear" as a feedback point afterwards then I wouldn't be rushing to agree with them

  2. #162

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    ... If "Yes, 9" were an instruction, you would again get instability on the feed. Let's give this new approach a chance.
    Trust me I would love to see the new CBSY9 thing to work, but I'm not convinced that getting the ball in immediately (ie the Y9 is an immediate instruction - rather than an invite) would again give instability on the feed because the ref doesn't say "Yes 9" until the scrum is S&S. IMO the greater the delay between the Ref seeing a S&S scrum, saying "Yes 9" ........ and the SH throwing it in, the greater the chance of the scrum becoming unstable.

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    But they still do [have to wait for the ball to leave his hands]
    Of course they do, but the old argument put forward by the elite refs was that they were so busy looking for dodgy binding, early shoves, collapsing etc that they missed the crooked feeds. The binding is now taken care of before the "Set"; from the limited number of games so far the number of collapsing scrums seem to be well down. Take away the opportunity for early shove as well and the elite refs can give the straight feed 100% attention. IMO the more offences they are looking for after Y9 the more likely they are to either miss or ignore the crooked feeds.
    Last edited by Taff; 10-09-13 at 11:09.

  3. #163

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesp92 View Post
    ^ penalised for nothing as he has done nothing wrong. But it isn't your job as referee to inform the entire scrum, equally you could say it doesn't matter if you do. But if I had an assessor say to me "you need to call yes 9 so everyone can hear" as a feedback point afterwards then I wouldn't be rushing to agree with them
    But I would expect the ref to be clear and consistent in communications.

  4. #164

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quite lucky with my assessor on Saturday. In the club house having a beer going over the game he said, " your engagement was too close, they looked already engaged when you called set. Try giving an extra inch and see if the scrum is as equally stable with no collapses".
    He did also say that I achieved everything the "new" engagement process is trying to achieve and if giving them that extra space causes trouble go back to what your doing.

  5. #165

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Whittaker View Post
    But I would expect the ref to be clear and consistent in communications.
    That's also true, but if they consistently just inform the 9 then I would suggest that's at least as good as informing the whole scrum

  6. #166

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    agreed Mike - but woah betide the pack that squeezes and creates a push before the ball comes in!

    didds

  7. #167

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesp92 View Post
    That's also true, but if they consistently just inform the 9 then I would suggest that's at least as good as informing the whole scrum
    Certainly appreciate the logic of the theory! However, we have to consider that you will not always be standing next to the SH putting it in - I hope; so when the other side of the scrum guess it will have to be semaphore??

    But seriously, let us also consider the forwards who know that nothing can happen until they are S&S which will be indicated by the ref's invitation to the SH. I think it is reasonable that they should be aware when that situation exists to the ref's satisfaction? And as Didds implies, they will be penalised if they act before the ball comes in anyway.

  8. #168

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Daftmedic View Post
    Quite lucky with my assessor on Saturday. In the club house having a beer going over the game he said, " your engagement was too close, they looked already engaged when you called set. Try giving an extra inch and see if the scrum is as equally stable with no collapses".
    He did also say that I achieved everything the "new" engagement process is trying to achieve and if giving them that extra space causes trouble go back to what your doing.
    Excellent! Job well done! I appreciate what your assessor was saying but hope you will remember what worked on this occasion and that it achieved what the procedure is trying to achieve. Nice to have that to go back to as you try out the law and see how it suits the conditions on the day. Hope your next game goes as well!

  9. #169

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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    He is a fantastic bloke. I was really lucky as he normally assesses federation more than society. I was like a sponge afterwards with his wisdom. I bloody love this game.

  10. #170
    Brian Moore
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    Default Re: Experiences of Crouch-Bind-Set-Yes 9

    I'm not sure why this issue of 'Yes 9' is causing such a problem, even in people's minds. Anything written has to be practical and if they meant the feed to be on the ref's call they would have to mandate the no 9 was in a position to feed it on the call. You don't need a prescribed count or limit; it is one of those things, you know a delay when you see it. Provided the no 9 has had a chance to tap the hooker's hand with the ball and receive the hooker's tap back or use whatever verbal count they might want etc, then that is the time that is sensible to say is without delay.

    If you don't allow this all you do is truncate the time in which the opposing pack has to estimate the feed and time their shove and the shorter you make it the closer you get to again having many things happen at once, which is what happened before. All you will do if you do this is exchange the signal for shoving from engagement to the ref's call and the same problems will return.

    For this reason I see no good coming from making sure everyone can hear the call, provided the feeding side no 9 hears it what is to anyone else, apart from them wanting to hear it to guess the timing of the shove? Who else needs the call to do what they have or want to do at the scrum?

    I cannot stress strongly enough, referees have to stop the early shove to make it a fair contest and allow the hooking window - if they don't it won't work and packs will go back to trying drive on the feed and walk over the ball. And on this point refs must be very alert to the feeding side pushing early to achieve this.

    As for their being more instability the longer you wait between 'Yes 9' and feed - that only happens if the other side pushes early. Provided a reasonable time is allowed and it isn't excessive there is a fair contest and no problem. How long would it take if you had to reset it? A lot longer than a few extra seconds for the feed - and with all the attendant dangers.
    Last edited by bcm666; 10-09-13 at 18:09.

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