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Thread: Tackle or not?

      
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    Default Tackle or not?

    Red attacker with the ball is wrapped up by blue defender.
    Blue defender half rips the ball and in the process red goes to his knees but holds on to the ball

    I usually shout 'release' but often, red complains he was the ball carrier

    Am I right?

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe@trfc View Post
    Red attacker with the ball is wrapped up by blue defender. Blue defender half rips the ball and in the process red goes to his knees but holds on to the ball. I usually shout 'release' but often, red complains he was the ball carrier. Am I right?
    We've kicked this about before; I don't know how much you get on here. At first I had argued that "going to ground" should not be treated the same as "brought to ground" but I will admit to changing my mind on it.

    It is a tackle (as the ball carrier was "held and brought to ground") so the Blue player is expected to release first.

    At first glance this seems harsh (Blue is trying to stay on his feet after all) but the good news for him is that as soon as he has released, he can go back for the ball and there's sod all the Red ball carrier can do about it.

    So Blue will either get the ball or a PK for Red not releasing. Either way the one going to ground loses out.
    Last edited by Taff; 25-03-14 at 12:03.

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    The only problem is of course, as Blue is not the tackler he has to come in from behind the ball!

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe@trfc View Post
    Red attacker with the ball is wrapped up by blue defender.
    Blue defender half rips the ball and in the process red goes to his knees but holds on to the ball

    I usually shout 'release' but often, red complains he was the ball carrier

    Am I right?
    In the situation where a 1on1 wrestle develops and continues (that hasn't turned into a maul yet!) And the ball carriers knee goes down....you could quickly shout "TACKLE MADE" or "TACKLED"..... it gives both players a clear indication of the phase of play that you are now considering.

    Its then much easier for everyone to accept your next decision .....

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    The important bit of info we are not getting here is whether Blue himself, in the process of taking Red to ground, went to ground. If he did he is a tackler if not he is tackle assist. Important distinction to be made in how tackler/ assist can compete for the ball after carrier has gone to ground. Either way there must be a clear release of ball carrier and ball.

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe@trfc View Post
    The only problem is of course, as Blue is not the tackler he has to come in from behind the ball!
    Depends what you mean by "come in".

    15.6(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and
    from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
    Sanction: Penalty kick


    You will see that there is no requirement to exit and re-enter. All he has to do is to ensure that he's behind the ball when he goes for it. This shoould be easy enough in the scenario you defined.

    Note that calling "release" is confusing. Who should release what? It sounds as though you expect the ball carrier to release the ball to the tackler - this is the wrtong way round. The tackler should let go, so the ball carrier can then release or pass.
    Don't feed the pedant!

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    I like Browner's suggestion of "Tackle made!" or some such. It aptly describes the event and lets players know their responsibilities.

    I used to be fond of yelling instructions for players. Now I think it's better to define what mode of play is happening, and then only when it may be ambiguous. Less can be more.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    A great thread

    expanded scenario

    red runs into blue... blue wraps him up... and in the process ties up the ball.

    Red team mate arrives... Maul is formed and in the process red drops to 1 knee, but is then able to get back to both feet. Is this considered a tackle? Does the length of time spent on one knee count for anything?

    17.6.g states "if the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting, the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available... What do you consider to be immediately?

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by sdingley View Post
    A great thread

    expanded scenario

    red runs into blue... blue wraps him up... and in the process ties up the ball.

    Red team mate arrives... Maul is formed and in the process red drops to 1 knee, but is then able to get back to both feet. Is this considered a tackle? Does the length of time spent on one knee count for anything?

    17.6.g states "if the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting, the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available... What do you consider to be immediately?
    It can't be considered a tackle, as that is not one of the ways a maul can successfully end.

    He has gone to ground and needs to make the ball available. To me "immediate" is as soon as an opponent wants it. Otherwise turnover scrum.

    In practice if he briefly brushes a knee and forward motion continues it would generally stay a maul.

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    Default Re: Tackle or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Depends what you mean by "come in".

    15.6(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and
    from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

    Sanction: Penalty kick


    You will see that there is no requirement to exit and re-enter. All he has to do is to ensure that he's behind the ball when he goes for it.
    The bit I have emphasised says it is more than just behind the ball. My take is that the law is explaining what "exit and re-enter" would mean.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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