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Thread: Offside after tackle?

      
  1. #21
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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    the problem with creating formal offside loines (I think this was trialled as a ELV ?) is that once a runner breaks the defensive line and every defender is behind him, a tackle puts the entire defensive side offside and it would almost be impossible to ever reach a stage whereby they can get back onside to defend - they wold have to be running significantly faster than the attackers to achieve this.

    So the nend result will either be a lot more undefendable tries, or yellow cards potentially with PTs as defenders now just tackle in offside postitions. You'd possibly have a lot more PTs being awarded for offside tackles inside the attacker's own half.

    didds
    The law already allows you to be put onside by the actions of an opponent So I'm not sure I agree with your thinking:

    11.3 BEING PUT ONSIDE BY OPPONENTS
    In general play, there are three ways by which an offside player can be put onside by an action of the opposing team. These three ways do not apply to a player who is offside under the 10-Metre Law.

    (a) Runs 5 metres with ball. When an opponent carrying the ball runs 5 metres, the offside player is put onside.

    (b) Kicks or passes. When an opponent kicks or passes the ball, the offside player is put onside.

    (c) Intentionally touches ball. When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not catch it, the offside player is put onside.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    There are also obvious disadvantages to intentionally putting one fewer player between the ball-carrying opponent and your own tryline, of course, so it's not necessarily an unfair advantage or a game-killing move.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    The law already allows you to be put onside by the actions of an opponent So I'm not sure I agree with your thinking.
    But that applies to offside in open play. I'm guessing Didds is thinking more along the lines of a "lazy runner" type offside line similar to a ruck or maul offside line.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    not really - Im concerned that a full offside line at a tackle will leave all the defence offside and unable to effect anything afterwards.

    but if the general playing onside stuff is pertinent then I guess that removes my concern mainly.

    didds

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    not really - Im concerned that a full offside line at a tackle will leave all the defence offside and unable to effect anything afterwards.

    but if the general playing onside stuff is pertinent then I guess that removes my concern mainly.

    didds
    Oppent running for 5 meters should do the trick

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    My recollection is that incidents (involving South African teams?) in SuperRugby showed the flaw. A player made a clean break and was tackled by the last defender not far from the goal line. A team mate grabbed the ball and went to score. In one case he was tackled and a penalty try was awarded, and in two more the defenders had to let him score. The ELV was withdrawn with immediate effect. I'll try and find the details.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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  7. #27

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    I found a report of one incident here http://www.ruggaworld.com/2008/03/21...4-2008-week-5/
    1. Penalty try consistencyWe shall look at this week’s incident in detail and then mention two incidents from previous weeks.
    a. Gcobani Bobo, the Stormers’ outside centre, has a clear run for the line but is easily overhauled and tackled by Brendon Leonard, the Chiefs scrumhalf. Bobo pops the ball back inside to Schalk Burger. Burger is immediately tackled by Lelia Masaga.
    The referee awards a penalty try.
    Before the introduction of the experimental law variations, which apply to Super 14, what Masaga did was legal. Now it is illegal.
    It is illegal because there is now an off-side line at a tackle – “through the hindmost part of the nearest player to each team’s goal-line regardless of the team to which that player belongs”.
    In this case the off-side line would have been through Leonard’s back foot for Masaga.
    He was clearly well in front of that when he tackled Burger.
    That ELV tackle law says this:
    15.10 UNFAIR PLAY
    If a player intentionally offends at a tackle, the provisions of Law 10.2 must be applied by the referee.
    Law 10.2 deals with Intentionally Offending, which is part of UNFAIR PLAY and so a part of FOUL PLAY, and ends with the following:
    A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.
    Clearly what Masaga did was not unintentional. Tackling Burger was intentional all right and effective.
    If he had not tackled Burger, Burger would have scored.
    There is logic in the penalty try.
    It made history – a penalty try in Super 14 for being off-side at a tackle and stopping a try from being scored. It may in fact stay unique.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    sorry for the dumb question: what is ELV? What's stand for?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by cccref View Post
    sorry for the dumb question: what is ELV? What's stand for?
    Experimental Law Variations

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Offside after tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    Experimental Law Variations
    Thanks!

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