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Thread: TJ Perenara's Bluff

      
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    Default TJ Perenara's Bluff

    How many people currently watching the Reds v Hurricanes game are shaking their heads at how TJ Perenara just bluffed Angus Gardner.
    Hurricanes attacking 5m scrum, get the push on and AG signals advantage and then blows for the PK. Without picking up the ball, which is on the ground and on the mark, Perenara appears to tap the ball, pick it up and dart over for the try before the scrum has even broken up. AG awards the try but before the kick is taken, the TMO tells AG that Perenara missed tapping the ball with his foot.
    AG changes his decision and awards a 5m scrum to the Reds for the incorrectly taken quick tap. As he is explaining to Perenara the reversed decision, Perenara says, "But it would still be our PK then". AG replies, "Fair point"' and changes his decision from a Red scrum to a PK to the Hurricanes.

    Oh dear.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Is this an April Fool joke?

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    The PK laws don't mention an "erroneous" kick, i.e. specifically not even kicking it, as actually an infringement and therefore he was entitled to have his valid attempt.

    I am thinking:

    A bit like a quickly taken penalty from the wrong mark. Referee pretty much just pulls them back to take it properly in every instance that he doesn't let it go to start with!

    But really:

    We know he get's away with one......It's TJP remember!
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 01-04-17 at 13:04.

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post

    Oh dear.
    About which particular element were you raising the "Oh" dear about?

    or was it just a collective, "Oh dear."?

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    How many people currently watching the Reds v Hurricanes game are shaking their heads at how TJ Perenara just bluffed Angus Gardner.
    Hurricanes attacking 5m scrum, get the push on and AG signals advantage and then blows for the PK. Without picking up the ball, which is on the ground and on the mark, Perenara appears to tap the ball, pick it up and dart over for the try before the scrum has even broken up. AG awards the try but before the kick is taken, the TMO tells AG that Perenara missed tapping the ball with his foot.
    AG changes his decision and awards a 5m scrum to the Reds for the incorrectly taken quick tap. As he is explaining to Perenara the reversed decision, Perenara says, "But it would still be our PK then". AG replies, "Fair point"' and changes his decision from a Red scrum to a PK to the Hurricanes.

    Oh dear.
    Agreed. However, it has become a custom to allow the retake at the elite level.

    21.2 WHERE PENALTY AND FREE KICKS ARE TAKEN
    (a) The kicker must take the penalty or free kick at the mark or anywhere behind it on a line
    through the mark. If the place for a penalty or free kick is within 5 metres of the goal line,
    the mark for the kick is 5 metres from the goal line, opposite the place of infringement.
    (b) When a penalty or free kick is awarded in in-goal, the mark for the kick is in the field of play,
    5 metres from the goal line, in line with the place of infringement.
    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum 5 metres from the goal
    line in line with the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.

    (c) If a quickly taken penalty kick or free kick is taken from the wrong place the referee will order
    the kick to be taken again.
    21.3 HOW THE PENALTY AND FREE KICKS ARE TAKEN
    (a) Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any type of
    kick: punt, drop kick or place kick. The ball may be kicked with any part of the lower leg from
    knee to the foot, excluding the knee and the heel.
    (b) Bouncing the ball on the knee is not taking a kick.
    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The
    opposing team throws in the ball.

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    About which particular element were you raising the "Oh" dear about?

    or was it just a collective, "Oh dear."?
    21.3 How the penalty and free kicks are taken

    (a) Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any type of kick: punt, drop kick or place kick. The ball may be kicked with any part of the lower leg from knee to the foot, excluding the knee and the heel.

    (b) Bouncing the ball on the knee is not taking a kick.

    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.
    (c) The kicker must use the ball that was in play unless the referee decides it was defective.

    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.

    21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements

    (d) A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark

    Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


    Angus Gardner already had the correct sanction for the incorrectly taken PK. Perenara managed to convince him he didn't
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    But:

    21.2 if a quickly taken penalty or free kick is taken from the wrong place, the referee will order the kick to be taken again.


    An inference can be that is more latitude for a quickly taken PK / FK to be taken again, whilst a 'deliberate' PK / FK must be taken correctly.

    In this instance, it is unlikely that TJP intentionally missed kicking the ball.

    It wasn't so long ago that we were chastising players for not knowing the Law! Even if AG also forgot the bit about altering his decision.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    How many people currently watching the Reds v Hurricanes game are shaking their heads at how TJ Perenara just bluffed Angus Gardner.
    Hurricanes attacking 5m scrum, get the push on and AG signals advantage and then blows for the PK. Without picking up the ball, which is on the ground and on the mark, Perenara appears to tap the ball, pick it up and dart over for the try before the scrum has even broken up. AG awards the try but before the kick is taken, the TMO tells AG that Perenara missed tapping the ball with his foot.
    AG changes his decision and awards a 5m scrum to the Reds for the incorrectly taken quick tap. As he is explaining to Perenara the reversed decision, Perenara says, "But it would still be our PK then". AG replies, "Fair point"' and changes his decision from a Red scrum to a PK to the Hurricanes.

    Oh dear.

    And TJP was absolutely correct in Law, and Angus Gardiner was correct to change his decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    21.3 How the penalty and free kicks are taken

    (a) Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any type of kick: punt, drop kick or place kick. The ball may be kicked with any part of the lower leg from knee to the foot, excluding the knee and the heel.

    (b) Bouncing the ball on the knee is not taking a kick.

    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.
    (c) The kicker must use the ball that was in play unless the referee decides it was defective.

    Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.

    21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements

    (d) A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark

    Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


    Angus Gardner already had the correct sanction for the incorrectly taken PK. Perenara managed to convince him he didn't
    None of this applies.

    There is no Law in the book that allows a scrum to be ordered for what happened because TJP did not commit any infringement. He simply picked up the ball and ran... it wasn't an incorrect type of kick or a bounce off the knee, which are the only infringements for which a scrum can be ordered. Why should Gold be disadvantaged because the AG initially failed to notice that TJP hadn't kicked the ball.

    If you can show me a Law that says a player failing to kick the ball at all at a PK/FK is an infringement, I'll happily recant.



    ETA: Oh, and just to get the pot boiling a little more, technically, the try could have been allowed.

    After AG blew the whistle, the Gold no 8 tapped the ball with his foot, and then TJP picked it up and ran.

    It could be argued that the No. 8 took the tap kick and TJP picked up the kicked ball and ran. There is nothing in law that says the player who kicked the ball has to be the one who runs with it; once any player from the non-infringing team kicks the ball... game on.. When a player kicks the ball at a PK, any player can pick it up, then run, pass or kick it.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 01-04-17 at 21:04.
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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    It wasn't so long ago that we were chastising players for not knowing the Law! Even if AG also forgot the bit about altering his decision.
    Wait, you think a referee can't change his decision when he know he has got something wrong.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: TJ Perenara's Bluff

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    And TJP was absolutely correct in Law, and Angus Gardiner was correct to change his decision.

    If you can show me a Law that says a player failing to kick the ball at all at a PK/FK is an infringement, I'll happily recant.
    Really?

    I already have Ian.

    21.4 Penalty and free kick options and requirements
    (d) A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark
    Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


    If you check the on-line LoTG and watch the video attached to this Law, you will see what we have always known i.e. if a RL style tap is taken, a scrum is awarded.
    The Law is very clear. It MUST be a clear kick and if the ball is on the ground, the ball MUST clearly leave the mark.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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