U19 Scrum with man in the bin

[thepercy]

U19 Red v Blue




#8 Red is a naughty boy and sent to the sin bin.




Scrum to Red. Do Red need to bring a back into the scrum to make it 8 v 8 or does Blue #8 need to drop to the backs offside line making it 7 v 7?




Same question, Blue scrum.

[beckett50]

Yes, you do.

[crossref]

Forward is carded , so both scrums are 7v7
If a back is carded , both scrums 8v8

If it's not clear whether the player was a forward or a back (let's say there hasnt been a scrum yet and he's wearing 17) then ... Manage it :-)

[SimonSmith]

Depends on the missive sent down by Kurt Weaver...

[crossref]

Depends on the missive sent down by Kurt Weaver...

Tell us more ?

[ChuckieB]

Forward is carded , so both scrums are 7v7
If a back is carded , both scrums 8v8

If it's not clear whether the player was a forward or a back (let's say there hasnt been a scrum yet and he's wearing 17) then ... Manage it :-)

May be reduced but not an absolute requirement in the first instance.

Much of what happens at grass roots level is a managed situation!

• UNDER-19 VARIATION
• In an eight-person scrum, the formation must be 3-4-1, with the single player (normally the number eight) shoving on the two locks. The locks must pack with their heads on either side of the hooker.
• When a team is reduced to fewer than 15 for any reason, the number of players in each team in the scrum may be similarly reduced.
• Where a permitted reduction is made in the scrum by one team, the other team must reduce their scrum accordingly, down to a minimum of five.
• Where there is an incomplete scrum, it must be formed as follows:
  
  • Seven players – three-four formation (i.e. no number eight).
  • Six players – three-two-one formation (i.e. no flankers).
  • Five players – three-two formation (i.e. no flankers or number eight).[COLOR=#2C8626 !important]Sanction: [/COLOR][COLOR=#2C8626 !important]Free-kick.[/COLOR]

[Pinky]

But the important thing to remember for u19 scrums is that they must have the same number of players from each side.

[SimonSmith]

Tell us more ?

Word for word this question was posted on the US Referees Facebook page.

The answer from HO was:

For High School and youth (U19): Bring in a back to make it 8v8 (or sub out a back and bring in a front row player). Do not penalize the non-infringing team by making them drop off a player. Only if the infringing team cannot safely add a player to thescrum would you drop both teams to 7v7. Clarification per Peter Watson, USA Rugby Laws Committee.

If a team does not have a suitable replacement for the front row, the scrums go uncontested and we would go back to 8v8 according to new law trials.

Whatever your decision, do not change numbers in the scrum according to who puts the ball in. Keep the decision consistent.

[crossref]

This is an area where national unions are free to set their own regs , isn't it?
So fair enough , it is allowed for it to be different in the US

In RfU land we also have regulations that differ from WR u19 Laws

[Phil E]

Word for word this question was posted on the US Referees Facebook page.

The answer from HO was:

For High School and youth (U19): Bring in a back to make it 8v8 (or sub out a back and bring in a front row player). Do not penalize the non-infringing team by making them drop off a player. Only if the infringing team cannot safely add a player to thescrum would you drop both teams to 7v7. Clarification per Peter Watson, USA Rugby Laws Committee.

The law book would seem to contradict USA Rugby.....no change there then

U19 variation 6c
Where a permitted reduction is made in the scrum by one team, the other team must reduce their scrum accordingly, down to a minimum of five.