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Thread: Intentional Knock-on?

      
  1. #1

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    Default Intentional Knock-on?

    Had an incident in a 7s game last weekend:

    Red player puts his hand out to block a blue pass. Ball hits red player's arm and goes up about 10-15m in the air, red player catches it clean and runs it in while the blue captain is screaming for an intentional knock-on. IMO, for it to be an intentional knock-on, there has to be a knock-on, or is that wrong?

  2. #2
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Juggling the ball counts as possession now (you can be tackled whilst juggling), so if ball has not yet hit the deck or another player then sounds fine to me.

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    11

    • 3. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
    • 4. It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.



    If the referee judges that the intention was merely to block the pass rather than catch the ball, then he should award a penalty for an intentional act that knocked the ball forward. The caveat about actually catching it does not apply.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    11

    • 3. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
    • 4. It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.



    If the referee judges that the intention was merely to block the pass rather than catch the ball, then he should award a penalty for an intentional act that knocked the ball forward. The caveat about actually catching it does not apply.
    I agree. If the player has intentionally knocked the ball forward it does not matter if he subsequently catches it.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Ball went up not forward according to OP so that's just juggling to catch so ok surely? Regardless of intention, and I accept an element of 'you have to see it' but if it's not gone forward how can it be any form of knock on - intentional or otherwise?
    Last edited by Flish; 17-07-18 at 10:07.

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Ball went up not forward according to OP so that's just juggling to catch so ok surely? Regardless of intention, and I accept an element of 'you have to see it' but if it's not gone forward how can it be any form of knock on - intentional or otherwise?
    Technically you are correct, but to me the OP clearly implied the player was running forward when he contacted the ball.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Ball went up not forward according to OP so that's just juggling to catch so ok surely? Regardless of intention, and I accept an element of 'you have to see it' but if it's not gone forward how can it be any form of knock on - intentional or otherwise?
    For what it's worth, I'm inclined to agree.

    Saying that it's a deliberate knock-on when it isn't even a knock-on could be a hard one to sell.
    Last edited by Taff; 17-07-18 at 12:07.

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    For what it's worth, I'm inclined to agree.

    Saying that it's a deliberate knock-on when it isn't even a knock-on could be a hard one to sell.
    The law refers to an intentional knock forward. Being intentional, it cannot be an (accidental) knock-on.

    In this respect I think the 2018 law is clearer than the 2017 one.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    the crux being it seems that you don;t sell it as a deliberate knock-on, but a deliberate knock forward.

    didds

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    Default Re: Intentional Knock-on?

    OP does not say the player was moving forward - merely that they blocked the ball.
    They could have had their feet were planted and only started to run after they caught it - which is why you have to be there.

    The ball has to go forward. Even if a player intentionally plays the ball, if they only get a fingertip to it and it still goes backwards there is no offence.

    It has to be C&O that it is intentional. If the player is attempting to catch the ball they are permited to juggle - although several people claim this is a new change it was in the law as far back as 1970.

    If the player knocks the ball high in the air and forward and happens to catch it as it comes down - is that a juggle or an intentional kock forward.

    As with all refereeing decisions it comes to what you see at the time.

    If it looked wrong, blow and sell your decision.
    If it looked fine to you, sell that - probably worth calling play on.

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